Statesman 30 Gallon Commercial Electric help!

[Joel6211]

Water temp doesn’t get above 90 degrees before tripping the reset on the Siemens contractor.
Main breaker in panel never trips. Single element, 208v. Verified amperage at contractor and ohmed out element and thermostat.

Tank was about 1/4 full of scale which I cleaned out and cleaned the heating element. Thought these two actions would solve my problem.

What is more like since I am getting “some” heating:

Element bad
Thermostat bad
Contractor/reset bad

About ready to pull my few remaining hairs out.

 

[Reach4]

Is this Siemens thing a breaker in the breaker box, or a big relay for 3-phase power? If a breaker, are there 2 or 3 sections of the breaker?

Where do you get that 208 V number?

Did this install work previously, or is this a new install?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Joel6211]

Is this Siemens thing a breaker in the breaker box, or a big relay for 3-phase power? If a breaker, are there 2 or 3 sections of the breaker?

Where do you get that 208 V number?

Did this install work previously, or is this a new install?

Siemens is 3 phase relay attached to tank. Top left in pic. 208v is on the mfg label.

This is repair of existing unit. Up to 20 years old, but looks “clean” inside after scale removal.

Thanks for your response.

 

[Reach4]

It looks to me as if you have a 3-phase WH being powered by 1-phase power. The original I suspect is similar to what is described here: https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/286419/controlling-three-phase-heating-element

I don't know. I am just speculating a bit.

Edit: my speculation was wrong.

 

[Joel6211]

Any guesses what my issue is? Thermostat? Heating element? Other?

 

[Reach4]

Any guesses what my issue is? Thermostat? Heating element? Other?

This is repair of existing unit. Up to 20 years old, but looks “clean” inside after scale removal.

I think you are saying that it worked acceptably in that spot wired as it is for 20 years. In that case, I expect one or two heating element sections failed.

Let's see a clear photo of the contactor label.

 

[Joel6211]

 

[Joel6211]

That pic is from Statesman manual. Let me see if I have a close up of actual.

 

[Joel6211]

 

[Ladiesman217]

Water temp doesn’t get above 90 degrees before tripping the reset on the Siemens contractor.
Main breaker in panel never trips. Single element, 208v. Verified amperage at contractor and ohmed out element and thermostat.

Tank was about 1/4 full of scale which I cleaned out and cleaned the heating element. Thought these two actions would solve my problem.

What is more like since I am getting “some” heating:

Element bad
Thermostat bad
Contractor/reset bad

About ready to pull my few remaining hairs out.

What do each of the three parts cost?

Are all of the replacement parts still available?

 

[Reach4]

That pic is from Statesman manual.

OK. Not what I was anticipating. New concept for me.

With the power off, and calling the bottom terminals of the contactor 1, 2, 3 and 4, what are the resistances from-to the following?

1-2
1-3
1-4
2-3
2-4
3-4

Edit: where x is the resistance of one element, I would expect this if the elements were all good"
1-2 x
1-3 2x
1-4 x
2-3 3x
2-4 2x
3-4 x

 

[Joel6211]

What do each of the three parts cost?

Are all of the replacement parts still available?

Element is $350 "ish" and thermostat is $230 "ish"

Contactor about $240....

 

[Joel6211]

Element before cleaning scale....

 

[Reach4]

I am thinking this is how 3 elements are wired. Based on this, an ohmmeter reading should show a discrepancy if one or two of the elements are burned out.

If the resistances check, then I would check to see if the power is coming out of the contactor as expected while the WH has maxed out in temperature. If the temperature is only 90, then the contactor should stay energized while the power is on. Each output voltage would be as expected.

 

[Joel6211]

 

[Reach4]

No. See my edited #11. "x" would be about 2.2 ohms, I think.

It looks like the elements are OK. Next check the voltages when the power is on.

1-2
3-4
1-4

All 3 voltages should be the line voltage -- 208 or whatever. If you find one lacking, that would be good news. That would tend to point to the contactor, and the Siemens 42CF25AF contactor, or equivalent, would be the cheapest thing, other than wire/connections, I think.

If those are OK, monitor to make sure the contactor stays energized when the WH is not hot enough. If the contactor is going on and off, then the thermostat would be the suspect.

 

[Joel6211]

Voltage across all three measures are consistent. (Good) Contactor tripped about 45 seconds after being energized. Thermostat set at 120.

 

[Reach4]

Contactor tripped about 45 seconds after being energized. Thermostat set at 120.

Sounds like the thermostat is the problem then. I would try turning the thermostat to 140 or so. Maybe it is a calibration problem.

 

[Joel6211]

Turned up to 140, stayed on for about 4 minutes. Temp got to about 90 from low 60’s, then tripped shut off.

 

[Reach4]

Turned up to 140, stayed on for about 4 minutes. Temp got to about 90 from low 60’s, then tripped shut off.

So do you turn the thermostat up to 160, 170, etc, or order a new thermostat? I would be turning it up myself, but in a commercial environment, maybe that is not the right thing.