Softener won't draw brine

[JustaDIYer]

OK, I'm stumped...

Recently installed a Fe filter ahead of my softener and now the softener will not draw brine to regenerate.

Things I've tried so far:
- removed brine tube from control head; confirmed suction during BD cycle, reconnected
- removed brine tube from brine valve in brine tank; confirmed suction
- put the removed brine tube into a pail of water to verify it draws the water (it did)
- replaced brine valve and reconnected brine tube; no suction
- removed the brine valve assembly and confirmed float in air check floats (not stuck or anything) when under water (it did float) and could feel/hear some suction at that point
- still not drawing brine!

WHAT'S NEXT??????

Fleck 5600SXT
drains flow freely
good well pressure
cleaned injector screen
water level in brine tank is above the 'normal' line, float has shut the water off into the tank


Advice please!!!!

 

[Reach4]

The problem would appear to be the hose after where you separated for your bucket test, or the check valve.

You can suck on the hose to see if you draw brine. You could distinguish an air leak from a blockage.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[JustaDIYer]

when I had the brine valve assembly out, I put the air check valve in a bucket and saw float and did suck on the brine valve to see if I could draw up water, I could.

 

[Reach4]

I would try sucking from the softener end of the brine line.

 

[JustaDIYer]

ok, i'll try that. but it did draw water from a bucket when unhooked from brine valve.

what else could it be? what else can I try? start replacing?

 

[Reach4]

what else could it be? what else can I try? start replacing?

1. I am not a pro. I have wondered if the safety float valve always allow brine to be drawn when the float sits high. I expect they all should, but maybe there is a failure mode where that malfunctions. I don't see that as probable, since the brine would have had to have risen too high before that would have caused a problem in the first place. Yet you already checked most stuff.
2. Suppose there was an air leak at a connection for the brine line at either end of a hose. That would not have caused you to fail your suck test right at the brine assembly. If the leak were at the top connection or other accessible connection, you could test for an air leak with shaving foam on the nut under test during brine draw phase. A suck test would show such a leak, except for the fitting at the controller. Air goes through a much smaller opening than water.

Here is another possible test: Use a different hose from the controller, and just stick the far end of that near the bottom of the brine tank. Try brine draw. There will be no check valve, so you should suck air once the brine level has dropped. It just another test.

A hand vacuum pump, such as Mityvac, could save you from sucking brine into your mouth. But saturated brine in the mouth is not that bad, as long as you have some water to rinse with.

 

[JustaDIYer]

ok, i'll have to get some new hose and try that and try the suck test with brine tube disconnected from controller.

and try to find any air leaks. maybe time to replace the hose and fittings.

 

[JustaDIYer]

Ok...I'm lost.... Pulled the tube off the brine valve and placed in a glass of water, it sucked it in in a matter of seconds. Put tube straight down into brine well....wouldn't suck water. Ran air check valve under some water, maybe some debris in there, and reconnected the tube and put back in brine well..... NOTHING!

I also removed tube from controller side and sucked till I got water....and yes I did. Attach it and nothing....

how can it suck water from a glass but not from the brine tank??????

 

[Reach4]

I also removed tube from controller side and sucked till I got water....and yes I did. Attach it and nothing....

So that seems to say that your vacuum is too weak, or that you have an air leak at the connection to the controller. You can stop looking into the brine tank stuff now, I think.

Measure the flow out of the drain line during the brine draw cycle. Your manual, maybe the right column of page 5 (rev H manual) or bottom of page 8 has this:
Manually Initiating a Regeneration

1. When timer is in service, press the Extra Cycle button for 5 seconds on the main screen.
2. The timer advances to Regeneration Cycle Step #1 (rapid rinse), and begins programmed time count down.
3. Press the Extra Cycle button once to advance valve to Regeneration Cycle Step #2 (backwash).
4. Press the Extra Cycle button once to advance valve to Regeneration Cycle Step #3 (brine draw & slow rinse).
5. Press the Extra Cycle button once to advance valve to Regeneration Cycle Step #4 (brine refill).
6. Press the Extra Cycle button once more to advance the valve back to in service.​

Page 25 of the rev H manual has BRINE DRAW, SLOW RINSE and TOTAL DRAW GRAPHS. You can make sure that the flow is in line with at least the SLOW RINSE number for your injector. Page 27 of the rev H manual tells which color is which injector.

how can it suck water from a glass but not from the brine tank??????

I suspect that your glass of water was not sitting on the floor, so a stronger vacuum would be needed to suck brine from the brine tank.

 

[JustaDIYer]

I figured the height of the glass was the factor... And controller was creating suction enough to pull from glass but not enough from the lower brine tank. So I'm replacing the tubing and fittings tonight.

 

[Reach4]

I figured the height of the glass was the factor... And controller was creating suction enough to pull from glass but not enough from the lower brine tank. So I'm replacing the tubing and fittings tonight.

If you are talking about the brine line tubing and fittings, that action does not match the symptoms as I interpret them.

 

[JustaDIYer]

What other lines are there?

There's nothing coming out of drain during BD...or very little sporadically.

Why would the suction requirements change suddenly? This softener has been in use for 3 years

 

[Reach4]

What other lines are there?

The drain line.

There's nothing coming out of drain during BD...or very little sporadically.

That cannot be caused by a problem with the brine line or safety float valve or check valve. Normal might be something like 0.4 gpm. You have not said what injector you have. You have not identified the tank diameter. You may need to call in a softener professional to get you going.

Why would the suction requirements change suddenly? This softener has been in use for 3 years

There is a troubleshooting list on page 2o. There is a section called "Softener fails to draw brine." You have eliminated most of them of them. I guess new seals and piston could be tried. Somebody with experience may have an idea to try before that; I have no relevant experience. I don't know if there could be a clog that you could have missed. Did you run a pipe cleaner through the injector, or just swish? Were there any deposits on the injector screen?

You said "drains flow freely". What did you mean by that? Are you saying that you get the expected flow out of the drain line during backwash?

 

[JustaDIYer]

Yes...drain is flowing as expected during the backwash first stage. It's new 3/4" PVC drain line. I never measured it though. The dlfc is clear.

If you mean the throat injector, then yes...I cleaned that. And the nozzle.

Yes the injector screen was getting clogged with iron, hence why I installed the iron filter before softener. I had to clean the screen and injector periodically cause it would get plugged and wouldn't draw brine. But it's clean now.

 

[Bannerman]

As you were able to use your mouth to draw brine through the brine tube, air check and pickup assembly, that seems to eliminate those components as the cause. Recheck the brine tube fitting at the controller, the component the fitting is attached to, brine valve and injector, looking closely for a small crack or defective seal which is allowing air to enter during brine draw.

Confirm there is a small amount of flow to drain during 'Brine Draw' as a light rinse flow through the injector, creates suction to draw brine.

 

[JustaDIYer]

I replaced the tube and fittings going into the controller. Cleaned the screen and injector. Removed fitting the tube is attached to, checked blfc. I'll check the injector and screen again and it's o-ring.

 

[Reach4]

I'll check the injector and screen again

Injector color=?

 

[JustaDIYer]

White.

 

[Reach4]

White.

The #1 white injector should be passing more than 0.6 GPM during the brine draw cycle, even if the check valve has shut off the flow. If you measure a lot less than that from the drain line, something is impeding that flow. I would measure your GPM at the drain during BD time.

 

[ditttohead]

Check out this video,

it appears you have the Pro-Flo (5000) valve. Since you added an iron reduction system ahead of this unit I would highly recommend tearing the valve down and carefully inspecting it. I would also soak the valve body in a citric acid solution for a few hours to clean up any nooks and crannies inside the valve that may be problematic. Iron tends to gunk up everything, everywhere inside these valves.