Self-grounding receptacle

[Curiousv]

I looked at your photo #35. Kind of hard to see with my 66 yo eyes. It seems to be moderately newer panel. If main panel the ground and neutral should be bonded together. If you are getting 120v at the breaker to the ground/neutral bar then that is correct.

I am starting to lose the meaning of this thread.

These circuits look newer. They should have grounds on them. How many wires does the incoming cable have in a receptacle box. If it is 3 total (one hot - usually black, one neutral = usually white and one bare ground) then your circuit is grounded. You should get 120v from hot to neutral and from hot to ground. If using a plastic box you can use the self-grounding receptacle but you will still have to run a ground wire from the ground on the incoming cable to the receptacle because again the plastic box is nonconductive so self grounding receptacle will do nothing in this case. Also be sure you bound all ground wires together in the box.

Thanks I thought you did not comment because I did not check ground at breaker correctly.
I tried to find ground screw inside panel but I could not that is why I checked at ground/neutral combo bar. I hope that is the correct way to check ground at breaker ..if not correct let me know how else I should check for ground at breaker?

Yes panel is newer - but I believe at that time previous owner did not spend money to change the wiring so wiring is still old type of wiring which is only 2 cable and fabric type of sheathing - no bare wire in other words ground wire but at least once circuit i.e bathroom when I removed drywall I saw they have used metal water supply line as ground because a separate ground wire is connected to that circuit connected to those metal pipes.

You are right the thread has lost its main objective...I have moved on from self grounding outlet to a question that can solve problem of not having ground at couple of circuits.

 

[Afjes]

Ok, if any circuit does not contain a ground wire in the cable then your best option to protect those receptacles is to install a GFCI receptacle. If you install GFCI receptacles at each receptacle box then wire them each as "line". Look at the back of the gFCi receptacle. You will see "line" and "load". To save on how many GFCI receptacles you use you can find the first receptacle inline in the circuit, wire the incoming power cable to the "line" side and then the outgoing cable to the "load" side. This will protect all your receptacles downline. You can also, if you can find the proper one, replace the regular breaker for this circuit, install a GFCI breaker and then this will protect all receptacles and lighting on this circuit. If you use a GFCI breaker don't install any GFCI receptacles on the same circuit. You may end up with phantom tripping of the GFCIs and it causes heartache and unnecessary to use GFCI receptacles on any circuit already protected by a GFCI breaker or GFCI receptacle upstream wired "Load" side. Any receptacle including a GFCI receptacle which is on an ungrounded circuit must have a label on the face plate "No ground present" or to that wording. The stickers are usually included in the GFCI package. If the receptacle is not a GFCI receptacle but is being protected by a GFCI receptacle upstream or a GFCI breaker then the sticker stating "GFCI Protected" must be placed on the face plate.

As I said using a GFCI receptacle or breaker is an NEC approved method.

 

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[Afjes]

@jadnashua Sorry to barge in to thread but I have relevant question.
House has a old cable that has no ground wire in it ..
We have added GFCI outlet in the system but what about protection between panel and GFCI outlet ..as I understand that GFCI will protection only downstream and upstream (before GFCI )

I think one light fixture is before GFCI - should I be worried and double check?

Oh, nuts!!!!
I just realized you piggy-backed off of an 11 year old thread. I had forgot this.

Simply use a GFCI breaker which is properly rated for your panel to protect the entire circuit if the circuit is not grounded.
If you can't find the proper GFCI breaker for your panel then find the first receptacle in the circuit, wire incoming power to "line" side and outgoing power to "load" side of the GFCI receptacle.

Just be sure that the GFCI breaker you get is one rated for your panel. You can't just use any brand that just happens to fit. The panel will tell you what breakers you must use. Most people with older panels go with the first receptacle inline and put in a GFCI receptacle and wire it incoming power to "line" and outgoing "load" to protect all receptacles downline.

Sorry, I had forgot you piggy-backed off of an older thread and my mind set was for "self grounding" receptacles.

 

[Curiousv]

Oh, nuts!!!!
I just realized you piggy-backed off of an 11 year old thread. I had forgot this.

Simply use a GFCI breaker which is properly rated for your panel to protect the entire circuit if the circuit is not grounded.
If you can't find the proper GFCI breaker for your panel then find the first receptacle in the circuit, wire incoming power to "line" side and outgoing power to "load" side of the GFCI receptacle.

Just be sure that the GFCI breaker you get is one rated for your panel. You can't just use any brand that just happens to fit. The panel will tell you what breakers you must use. Most people with older panels go with the first receptacle inline and put in a GFCI receptacle and wire it incoming power to "line" and outgoing "load" to protect all receptacles downline.

Sorry, I had forgot you piggy-backed off of an older thread and my mind set was for "self grounding" receptacles.

Thanks, Now that we are talking about GFCI - I see there are 2 holes for load side - so we can connect 2 different cables for 2 different devices that are downstream but can you add 3rd wire if yes how? can we use the screw to make connection for 3rd cable ?

 

[Reach4]

You need to run BOTH wires from the load to the next outlet. From there you could daisy chain to another outlet.

 

[Curiousv]

You need to run BOTH wires from the load to the next outlet. From there you could daisy chain to another outlet.

Those 2 pair holes are already occupied with 1 a light switch and 2. a modem - both are far away from where I want to add 3rd device. I want to add ductless range hood ..how can I do that ?

 

[Reach4]

Those 2 pair holes are already occupied with 1 a light switch and 2. a modem - both are far away from where I want to add 3rd device. I want to add ductless range hood ..how can I do that ?

The GFCI receptacles are not that expensive. An advantage to having more is if there is a ground fault trip, you are going to have an easier time of determining what causes the trip.

So if adding an extra GFCI or two makes things easier, then great.

 

[Jadnashua]

I think you're over your head.

If you don't have an actual ground, you will be safer if you feed it with a GFCI than just a plain 2-wire circuit. GFCI protects people from a faulty circuit. In 'normal' circumstances, it's never used. THe easier way to ensure the whole circuit is protected is to probably use a GFCI circuit breaker. But, you can protect multiple things IF you can find the first receptacle or device in the circuit, then run the incoming wires to its line contacts, then anything daisey-chained later, onto the load side of the thing. If you can't figure out the first item in the daisy-chain, then you could put gfci receptables in all of the locations. They do make GFCI circuits that don't have receptacles, but they'd take up a whole box, or are a replacement for a standard breaker in the panel.

In a house that has had some remodeling done, relying on a water pipe is risky, as it could have easily been cut off and some cpvc or pex installed, breaking the ground connection. IOW, you may not have a suitable ground anywhere nearby. That's one reason why a GFCI is approved when a ground is not available, but full capability also would have a ground as well. That would help certain devices, but the GFCI would protect a person if there was a fault better than a simple ground connection.