Rheem Water Heater - "normal" sediment or defective water heater?

[GoldenDaze]

Re: Rheem Model #XE50M06ST45U1
Three years new; drained for the first time yesterday and replaced the plastic drain valve with a brass full port valve (original valve plugged up). Noticed no/limited water flow to 3 faucets so I cleaned aerators. Still no flow to kitchen faucet so I removed both ends of supply lines and noticed debris as I looked down the hot water supply *valve*. Can not blow air easily through hot water supply "line" but can through the cold water line. Took a piece of ½" irrigation flex line, slightly nipped end and worked it over the outlet of hot supply valve and purged into a blue bucket. The city says since the water is virtually clear at the main shutoff pipe, this is caused by something in my house/hot water heater.

 

[Reach4]

Three years new; drained for the first time yesterday and replaced the plastic drain valve with a brass full port valve (original valve plugged up).

Did you see crap come out?
Are you saying that your stop valve is clogged and you can see the debris in it? You could consider replacing the stop valve. You also could consider blowing water backwards to the WH, which you will flush again. To do that, you would turn off the hot supply at the WH. Open the WH drain. Run a connector line from the cold stop valve to the hot stop valve, and open valves.

The city says since the water is virtually clear at the main shutoff pipe, this is caused by something in my house/hot water heater.

I think a whole-house sediment filter for city water is a good idea. I am not saying that your blockage material came in from the city. I don't know.

 

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[GoldenDaze]

BTW, the shut off valves to the kitchen sink were replaced maybe 3 yrs. ago. I flushed them out with the irrigation flex pipe. The pic with the blue background (bucket) is the crap that came out of the hot water valve. The same crap that was in the kitchen supply valve is being trapped by the master bath aerator when I turn to the hot water side. There is equal pressure and flow on both hot and cold with the aerator off in the master bath faucet.

Logic tells me this is something in my hot water heater but I'm open to and would appreciate any and all thoughts. Especially, if anyone has seen this stuff before. BTW, I do *not* have a water softener hooked up to the house. That was removed 6 yrs. ago before I purchased this water heater. Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

Pictures work.

Light stuff would be calcium and magnesium hardness deposits. The small diameter would indicate that the deposits formed on the heating element, and then sloughed off. Softeners are nice.

Dark stuff I don't know. Possibly produced by the anode.

Water heater (WH) flushing can be done different ways. One way is to
1. Turn off the WH water, and put the WH in vacation mode, if it has one. Otherwise off.
2. Open a hot water tap to pass air.
3. Drain the WH completely. Usually you would use a hose to direct the water. (Take a look at the first water; it may be impressive.)
4. Turn the water supply on fully for a few seconds, and turn off. You are trying to cause turbulence to the bottom of the tank.
5. Do steps 3 and 4 several times. If you have a way to monitor the drained water, you could judge by what you are getting out.
6. Turn on the water and expel the air. Close the hot water tap once the air has been expelled and just water is coming out.
7. Turn the WH back on. It is not that critical with gas, but it is important that the water level is above the top element before turning the power to the WH back on.

 

[GoldenDaze]

Thanks, I followed all those steps except to say my hot water heater timer was manually set to "off" before I started. I have yet to turn it back on until I resolve this. I repeated steps 3 and 4 for *five* times... the water is still murky looking (kinda sand color) - not clear. I have not even attempted to pull and look at the anode; was hoping to wait at least another year for that.

 

[Reach4]

the water is still murky looking (kinda sand color) - not clear.

In that case, try a "power flush". https://terrylove.com/forums/index....o-flush-a-hot-water-heater.79444/#post-576623

With your new full-port valve, you could maybe put a wand in there to stir things up. This presumes you can deal with the water that comes out around the wand.

Wand: Camco 40103 25.5 inches long is one possible wand.

I have thought that some small electric pressure washer might have a small-enough wand.

 

[GoldenDaze]

I tried the power flush 5 times but when empty though and only left the water on 3 seconds each time - not 20 seconds. The wand idea sounds possible as long as I coordinate it with my wet/dry vac.

These are all treating the symptoms though... I would love to know what is "causing" the debris, esp. the large shards in the hot water tank and small uniform stuff coming through the supply lines. Just checked permit data and I believe the house was repiped with cpvc in 2001. Don't know if anyone has seen anything similar before either with defects or from cpvc???

 

[Reach4]

These are all treating the symptoms though... I would love to know what is "causing" the debris, esp. the large shards in the hot water tank and small uniform stuff coming through the supply lines.

Big cream color shards are hardness deposits.

Picture from https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/calcium-buildup-in-water-heater.24001/
Look familiar?

 

[Phog]

The manual for your water heater indicates that it is equipped with internal heat trap fittings. This could explain why you couldn't blow in air through the hot connection.

 

[GoldenDaze]

@Reach4 Thanks, now I know what the shards are. So how is it determined, by time or amount of debris when draining, as to when to replace the anode rod?

@phog Are you suggesting the heat trap fittings are somehow causing the accumulation of the debris in the hot water supply lines and valves? Confused on this; will installing new trap fittings eliminate that? I've deduced I need to replace the hot water supply line at the kitchen faucet.

Seems like I've opened up Pandora's box!

 

[Reach4]

@Reach4 Thanks, now I know what the shards are. So how is it determined, by time or amount of debris when draining, as to when to replace the anode rod?

I don't know what a good time would be. Maybe with your water, there is no reason to replace the anode. The hardness may just coat everything.

The great majority of people never change anodes. I did. I put in a powered anode, which does not get consumed.

@phog Are you suggesting the heat trap fittings are somehow causing the accumulation of the debris in the hot water supply lines and valves? Confused on this; will installing new trap fittings eliminate that? I've deduced I need to replace the hot water supply line at the kitchen faucet.

He is suggesting that the heat trap may be acting as a check valve.

Can not blow air easily through hot water supply "line" but can through the cold water line.

You blew air by mouth, air compressor, or what?

 

[Phog]

He is suggesting that the heat trap may be acting as a check valve.

Exactly. In addition, if there is debris caught in the hot connection's integrated heat trap, it might partially clogged and/ or having trouble opening fully at higher flows.

 

[GoldenDaze]

Mouth... I didn't have to plug anything in and wait, lol. Hmm, maybe I should try the compressor though and see if that clears the line. Sorry, but heat traps and check valves are over my DIY experience thus far. Just trying to figure out what it's going to take to cure all of this.

 

[GoldenDaze]

@phog Isn't the heat trap in the hot water tank, not the supply lines/shut off valves? The stuff in the pic with the blue background (bucket) was purged from the hot water shut off valve to the kitchen faucet today.

 

[Phog]

An integrated heat trap is just a little plastic device that fits down inside the pipe connection. They're relatively new, you didn't used to see them installed from the factory but lately many / most heaters are coming with them. They've got a little ball that floats up and down to prevent water from moving past under certain conditions. This traps hot water inside your tank when no faucets are running and thus saves a few dollars a year in energy costs. There is one each installed the hot and cold connection. They are a bit of a flow restriction under normal circumstances, and I can see how the outlet (hot) hear trap could act as a point for debris to accumulate, and maybe even clog. I'm not saying this is what's happening in your case, just suggesting a possibility.

 

[Phog]

@phog Isn't the heat trap in the hot water tank, not the supply lines/shut off valves? The stuff in the pic with the blue background (bucket) was purged from the hot water shut off valve to the kitchen faucet today.

Yes -- look down into the water heater from the top with the water connections removed and you will see the heat traps. If you have scale & sediment forming inside the tank, the flow could possibly carry pieces up and out of the tank through the hot (outlet) and from there through the rest of your hot plumbing, all the way to the kitchen sink. Anything along the way that is a restriction is a place where debris can lodge. Including shutoff valves, heat trap, etc. It's not that common to have so much of a problem with mineral scaling and sediment that everything clogs up, but it would explain what you're describing.

 

[GoldenDaze]

@phog Appreciate the explanation on heat traps! Another opinion I got elsewhere last night suggested a possible disintegrating dip tube (but the water heater is barely 3 yrs. old). Kicking myself I didn't save the debris so I could see if it melted. Right now, I hoping it's just sediment and am flushing out all the hot water lines for 10 - 15 min. With luck, that might work.

 

[Reach4]

@phog Appreciate the explanation on heat traps! Another opinion I got elsewhere last night suggested a possible disintegrating dip tube (but the water heater is barely 3 yrs. old). Kicking myself I didn't save the debris so I could see if it melted. Right now, I hoping it's just sediment and am flushing out all the hot water lines for 10 - 15 min. With luck, that might work.

Also, hardness deposits dissolve in acid such as vinegar. Takes some time with a mild acid like vinegar.

If you run water out of the WH drain again, you could tie a loose-weave cloth over the hose. You would catch any deposits for test. Soak in vinegar, or burn in flame.

If we take the broad definition of sediment (the matter that settles to the bottom of a liquid), it is sediment, regardless of its origin.

 

[GoldenDaze]

Update: Removed all aerators from faucets, blew compressed air through the kitchen supply lines, removed kitchen faucet spray head and soaked it and shower heads in white vinegar. There is free flow of water/pressure through the kitchen supply lines at this point. I just remembered that there was a "boil water" notice around the corner from me last week but can't get more info until Mon. Coincidentally, I discovered there was a water main break the day before I drained my water heater and it was fixed the day after. A neighbor doesn't think it would affect us as it was 5 blocks away and supposedly doesn't tie into our water lines.

Since I plan to drain the WH a second time tomorrow, I will use your suggestions Reach4 and do the power flush with a knee-high stocking attached to the end of the hose. With luck, I'll be able to collect enough debris for testing. I'll post pics of anything interesting.

 

[GoldenDaze]

Did the power flush yesterday, 03/17/19. A rep from the city water came out to house today. He claims any nearby broken water main and related repair would NOT be causing these issues.... the incoming water from city is clear. His opinion is that the remaining debris being captured in the bathroom sink aerator is "calcium" [it breaks up between his fingers (and did *not* melt on the heat test)] and stated it's the same stuff accumulated in the shut off valve in my first pic.... perhaps it's dissipating?

As the kitchen sink is hooked up again and working right now, I think I will just monitor things for awhile to see if the debris eventually disappears.

Would anything in the anode be creating this much debris??? Would changing it out this soon eliminate the stuff? Thanks!