Replacing toilet flange, finds lead and broken cement

[bnewland]

Because I'm fixing the CI drain pipe in my main bathroom, I am forced to use my second bathroom, which needs repairs as the first bathroom is taking longer than it should.
The second bathroom is on a slab, and the slab has all broken and shifted. The toilet in the second bathroom is a cadet by American standard and it leaks out the base which I thought was just a wax ring fix. The linoleum tile underneath the toilet was all destroyed so I thought I'd clean that up a little while I was in there. When I got the toilet off, the slab was cracked and separating, the flange was broken, and the wax ring was flattened to nonexistent. So I'm thinking that I just have to remove the broken flange and maybe put a new one in and I'd be good. When I got the flange out, it looked like it was sitting in a malleable lead casing, which I've never seen nor dealt with before. I'll attach some pictures, and I've done some reading after searching here for lead related installations, but I'm not sure if what I have is lead or what.
What should I do with this mess? Do I need to break out some of the slab and pour some quikrete with a new flange? This isn't going to be a finish floor for now. It just needs to be operational without wasting time and money. I'll do a permanent proper installation when I redo the slab and this room. Pictures will follow in a few minutes in the next post

 

[bnewland]

Embarrassing Pics:

 

[Sponsor]

 

[bnewland]

Should this thread be in the plumbing forum?

 

[John Gayewski]

I don't know what they is. I think i would remove things until I found something I recognized.

 

[Weekend Handyman]

Don’t know about the flange. As an unrelated FYI, the black mastic and the flooring may contain asbestos. When it comes time to rip it out, look into it.

 

[bnewland]

Ignorance just may be bliss.
Joking aside, thanks for the warning, Weekend Handyman.

 

[Reach4]

Looks like you are filling cracks with "Great Stuff" foam. I am sure there is better stuff for dealing with cracks in concrete.

Is the hole in the lead 3.5 inch ID? I would consider Danco Hydro Seat if the legs would sit on good material.

 

[bnewland]

I used expanding foam spray in order to keep the spiders and mice out of the bathroom. It wasn't for any structural integrity. I've seen your posts suggesting or recommending the danco hydro seat. It looks like a very good product.
I might give it a shot. What's the worst that can happen? Certainly nothing worse than what I have now!

 

[bnewland]

The lead hole is a little over three and a half inches, sorry I didn't answer your question last post. I've started removing the cement around it, and folded the lead closed over the hole. I've got to run to the hardware store and return a quarter inch supply line for a 3/8 in supply line. I'll see if they have the danco hydro seat.

 

[bnewland]

What is this? It is very flexible, must be lead, but what function does it serve? Packing? Liner?
The CI is a little crusty, but intact. I'm thinking that I should just remove the lead, and install a CI "collar" or extension piece, then the toilet flange, and remove all the immediate broken concrete. Build a form around the pipe/flange maybe 20"x20" and use quikcrete 5000 to fill around the pipe. Sound ok?

 

[Reach4]

I had assumed you had lead. If it is not lead, and you have intact 4 inch ID cast iron, that opens some other possibilities. If there is enough vertical space, maybe a Pushtite 4-inch closet flange with a stainless ring. 887-GPM Sioux Chief.

If you can patch up the concrete enough to accept screws, maybe use flange directly. If you need to widen out the attachment method, you could use a flange repair ring with the new flange. PASCO 21013, Jones Stephens C85000, Oatey 42775, and Superior 21015 are repair rings with mounting tabs outside. They also have inside mounting holes that you could use to attach to the close flange.

 

[John Gayewski]

It looks like a lead pipe in a cast iron hub. Clean and remove all of the lead and everything from the hub.

 

[bnewland]

Thanks for the part numbers, Reach4. I bought some things while at my local hardware store, if that doesn't work then I'll make the hour drive to a plumbing supply store tomorrow am. I got a flange, a extension that fits inside the cast, quikrete, flange bolts, wax ring with horn, wax ring without horn, waxless gasket, 1/4 turn supply valve, 3/8" water line, fluidmaster 400a fill valve, fluidmaster flush valve w/pretty flapper, brass tank to bowl bolts, t-t-b gasket, did I forget anything? No..I think that's everything.

 

[bnewland]

Thanks John, I'm on that as we speak. This doesn't take too long, but I'm trying not to damage the cast piece since it's crusty and might crack to pieces.

 

[bnewland]

I've removed some cement. My goal is the remove the smaller piece of cement altogether then put the bigger piece back in.
The two pvc pieces fit in the metal piece perfect. I'll glue the flange to the pvc coupler/riser, whatever it's called.
make sure the flange is level, build a form and pour cement to fill until it reaches just under the flange 1/4".

 

[John Gayewski]

I don't think your going to have a water right connection.

 

[bnewland]

What would make it water tight?

 

[Reach4]

What do you have to deal with? Was that 3.6 inch ID after the lead/other material was removed, and is still what you are looking at? Or is the ID larger after the lead/etc was removed? If it is 4 inch ID now, there are some easy solutions.

What is that adapter you showed in your pictures?

https://ipsplumbingproducts.com/brands/water-tite/closet-and-urinal-flanges/long-closet-flange/ is a long-tail spigot closet flange made to fit into a 3.5 inch ID hub. Maybe you could put material around the tail to make up the gap. I am thinking some kind of O-rings, or self-adhering silicone tape.

I would avoid gluing in a flange with a plastic ring.

 

[bnewland]

The adapter is a LESSO 4"x3" DWV S&D Adapter Coupling LP117X - 422B
After the lead was removed, the ID of the pipe is 4". The OD of the PVC adapter looks more like 3 15/16", but would take gentle tapping to get it in the pipe.
A long-tail spigot closet flange looks good but would need to fit a 4" ID. I imagine they make those too, don't they?

 

[Reach4]

For 4-inch ID pipe, I would go with the Sioux Chief 887-GPM.

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Sioux-Chief-887-GPM-4-Inside-Push-Tite-Flange-w-Stainless-Steel-Swivel-Ring

If the tail is not long enough, there is a way to extend that. I don't think you would need to extend, but if you do, it is easy enough.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-4-in-PVC-Twist-N-Set-Open-Toilet-Flange-436512/100062268 would be good too, but has a plastic ring. Since the flange is not glued in, it could be replaced in the unlikely case that came up.


While it is not the norm, I would apply a coating of a plumbing grease to to the flange. I have a tube of Molykote/Dow 111, and I am prone to use it.