Pump / generator

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Grunt

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I have a 3hp submersible & a Duromax XP5500HX generator, the pump motor is Franklin 3hp, 3wire, 230v, 2.2 kw, 1 phase 60hz.
Pump is 450 feet deep, static water level 140 feet, 84 gallon bladder tank. Info for pump motor states
• Full Load ( Amps / Watts ): 10 Amps / 670 Watts
• Starting / Maximum ( Amps / Watts ): 12 Amps / 960 Watts
• Locked Rotor Amperage: 64.4 Amps
Am concerned about the generator starting the pump. The generator has 25 starting amps at 220v.
Am hoping that the capacitor in pump control box will give the initial amps to get past the LRA of 64.4 amps.
This generator was starting & running a 1 1/2 hp pump at the pervious stated depth & didn't even grunt down doing it at startup am hoping it will work on the new 3hp. Your input is greatly appreciated.
 

Grunt

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I have a 3hp submersible & a Duromax XP5500HX generator, the pump motor is Franklin 3hp, 3wire, 230v, 2.2 kw, 1 phase 60hz.
Pump is 450 feet deep, static water level 140 feet, 84 gallon bladder tank. Info for pump motor states
• Full Load ( Amps / Watts ): 10 Amps / 670 Watts
• Starting / Maximum ( Amps / Watts ): 12 Amps / 960 Watts
• Locked Rotor Amperage: 64.4 Amps
Am concerned about the generator starting the pump. The generator has 25 starting amps at 220v.
Am hoping that the capacitor in pump control box will give the initial amps to get past the LRA of 64.4 amps.
This generator was starting & running a 1 1/2 hp pump at the pervious stated depth & didn't even grunt down doing it at startup am hoping it will work on the new 3hp. Your input is greatly appreciated.
Hey, what's a guy got to do to get some attention around here, you all make me feel just like i'm at home.
 

Reach4

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AIM manual says you need a 5KW 6.5KVA generator.
 

Grunt

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AIM manual says you need a 5KW 6.5KVA generator.
I looked at the AIM 2023 manual yesterday & what I found on page 5 table 3 for generator minimum rating for 3 hp pump was 10kw am I reading this correctly is there another section /area ?
 

Reach4

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I looked at the AIM 2023 manual yesterday & what I found on page 5 table 3 for generator minimum rating for 3 hp pump was 10kw am I reading this correctly is there another section /area ?
I was thinking most generators today are internally regulated.


Maybe I was mistaken?
 
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Grunt

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I was thinking most generators today are internally regulated.


Maybe I was mistaken?
Did some research found that most generators are externally regulated except for inverter generators are internally regulated, can't find info on the Duromax XP5500HX if it's internally regulated or externally. Am at the point to just take a shot in the dark & try it but worry it may somehow could cause some type of damage if it is not enough to get the pump turning.
 

Fitter30

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I have a 3hp submersible & a Duromax XP5500HX generator, the pump motor is Franklin 3hp, 3wire, 230v, 2.2 kw, 1 phase 60hz.
Pump is 450 feet deep, static water level 140 feet, 84 gallon bladder tank. Info for pump motor states
• Full Load ( Amps / Watts ): 10 Amps / 670 Watts
• Starting / Maximum ( Amps / Watts ): 12 Amps / 960 Watts
• Locked Rotor Amperage: 64.4 Amps
Am concerned about the generator starting the pump. The generator has 25 starting amps at 220v.
Am hoping that the capacitor in pump control box will give the initial amps to get past the LRA of 64.4 amps.
This generator was starting & running a 1 1/2 hp pump at the pervious stated depth & didn't even grunt down doing it at startup am hoping it will work on the new 3hp. Your input is greatly appreciated.
Starting amps isn't 12 amps it's lock rotor amps for the first moments 1/2 to 1 cycle then the amps drop off quickly at 75% speed the potential relay drops the start cap and motor is running off run cap only.
 

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I am pretty sure you will need twice the size of generator for the 3HP. Won't hurt the pump to try. Will just bog down the genny. Would be easier to start if the pipe above the pump is full and there is a closed valve at the top. Can't leave it closed for more than a minute but a pump will start much easier against a closed valve than when wide open.
 

Grunt

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Starting amps isn't 12 amps it's lock rotor amps for the first moments 1/2 to 1 cycle then the amps drop off quickly at 75% speed the potential relay drops the start cap and motor is running off run cap only.
I copied & pasted the pump motor info, I understand the LRA is 64.4 amps but research in the AIM manual states it takes a minimum of 65% of the LRA to get the rotor moving which would be 41.86 amps, my Duromax 5500 doesn't put out 42 amps so I had hoped the cap in the control box would have some influence towards providing an initial boost of amps to get it turning & from that point it would only require 12 amps to run butt I don't have the knowledge / experience in that area of how much / what the cap will provide so was fishing for knowledge hear. I did contact franklin tech support today & was told they only recommend to customers to go with the generator that is externally regulated which the manual states is a minimum of a 10,000kw so no matter what it will start the 3hp motor & they (Franklin) will not have any egg on their face for recommending a make & model of a 6.25kw internally regulated generator vice the 10,000kw externally regulated which is a sure thing. Sitting here on a break from cutting trees up from the hurricane & having a couple hours of sleep last night it now dawns on me that the Duromax 5500 i have puts out 46 amps at 120v & 23 amps at 240v so now my thinking is 23 amps going into each of the 2 hot legs would be 46 amps or is this just wishful thinking / sleep depravation. I don't want to buy a 10,000kw generator uses too much fuel, weight appx 240lbs etc etc.
I have emailed Duromax tech support to find out if their gen is internally regulated but has gone unanswered. I have found one gen manufacture that is internally regulated butt the price for a 6,600kw is very pricey it is Wacker Neuson GPS6600A $4,000.00 did see a couple used for around $3,000.00 & for an open frame gen they are supposed to be fairly quiet but haven't read any stats on that. Well it's been nice just sitting here soaking up some ac & rambling on butt I have to get back at it. Am very curious about my train of thought on the amp breakdown of my 5500 watt gen I stated earlier does it work that way at 240v would be 23amps 120v down each of the 2 leggs so I may have a chance at starting pump ? Well I got to go loosing daylight please excuse any clerical errors I can never remember where the dam smell right button is on this infernal machine. Thanx again
 

Reach4

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Sitting here on a break from cutting trees up from the hurricane & having a couple hours of sleep last night it now dawns on me that the Duromax 5500 i have puts out 46 amps at 120v & 23 amps at 240v so now my thinking is 23 amps going into each of the 2 hot legs would be 46 amps or is this just wishful thinking / sleep deprivation.
Wishful thinking, I am thinking. I think the pump is going to start, but it would be wishful thinking about the 120/240 thing. 23 amps thru each leg is 23 amps at 240.
 

Grunt

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I am pretty sure you will need twice the size of generator for the 3HP. Won't hurt the pump to try. Will just bog down the genny. Would be easier to start if the pipe above the pump is full and there is a closed valve at the top. Can't leave it closed for more than a minute but a pump will start much easier against a closed valve than when wide open.
Hey valve man, hoping you would show up. Yes pipe full, some pressure, valve closed very short time, all thigs I learned with you installing shallow well pump & PK1a & using small inverter generator on it a few years ago working with you thanx again & to reach 4 i remember him helping, I really got to go back to those trees & krap from hurricane loosing light. Bye
 

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Hey valve man, hoping you would show up. Yes pipe full, some pressure, valve closed very short time, all thigs I learned with you installing shallow well pump & PK1a & using small inverter generator on it a few years ago working with you thanx again & to reach 4 i remember him helping, I really got to go back to those trees & krap from hurricane loosing light. Bye
Lol! Sorry for the delay. Been replacing my HVAC system, which took a while. Generators usually have peak amps as well, which is more than running amps. Peak amps of the generator need to be more than locked rotor amps, even with a good start cap.
 

Grunt

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Well the LRA for this pump is 64.4 amps but the AIM manual states a 10000 watt externally regulated generator will start & run this 3hp pump but what makes this confusing is a 10000watt gen is only 41.7 amps at 240v. Do they mean 64.4 LRA at 120v or 64.4 at 240v it isn't defined ether way just says LRA 64.4. And does anyone know of a internally regulated portable generators. I have heard that a Honda 6500 watt gen will run 3hp well pumps but can't confirm this.
 

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Do they mean 64.4 LRA at 120v or 64.4 at 240v it isn't defined ether way just says LRA 64.4. And does anyone know of a internally regulated portable generators.
I can say that Franklin does not make a 115 volt pump except for 1/2 hp. So they don't mean 120 volt.

The pump is OK with the voltage sagging during start.
 

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Well the LRA for this pump is 64.4 amps but the AIM manual states a 10000 watt externally regulated generator will start & run this 3hp pump but what makes this confusing is a 10000watt gen is only 41.7 amps at 240v. Do they mean 64.4 LRA at 120v or 64.4 at 240v it isn't defined ether way just says LRA 64.4. And does anyone know of a internally regulated portable generators. I have heard that a Honda 6500 watt gen will run 3hp well pumps but can't confirm this.
Watts divided by the volts equals amps. 10K watts divided by 230V equals 43 amps. If the genset has running amps of 43, it can handle momentary peaks of more than that. There is usually a figure in the genset specs for peak load. I am guessing the peak load is about 150% of running load. So, the genset should be able to start a motor with 64 locked rotor amps. But check with the genset manufacturer.
 

Grunt

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Watts divided by the volts equals amps. 10K watts divided by 230V equals 43 amps. If the genset has running amps of 43, it can handle momentary peaks of more than that. There is usually a figure in the genset specs for peak load. I am guessing the peak load is about 150% of running load. So, the genset should be able to start a motor with 64 locked rotor amps. But check with the genset manufacturer.
The generator I have right now is 5500 peak (surge) which is 22.91 amps at 240v 45.82 amps at 120v, generator's normal running
wattage is 4500 watts which is 18.75 240v & 37.5 120v. AIM manual states minimum of 10kw externally regulated generator to start this 3hp pump butt what is confusing is the LRA is 64.4 & a 10000 watt generator is only 41.7 amps at 240v & if your 10000 watt generator can (not likely) surge to 15000 watts thats still only 62.5 amps 240v which is still 1.5 amps short of the pumps LRA of 64.4. There was something in the AIM manual about minimum of 65% required for pump but can't tell if they are referring to the pumps LRA or what but 65% of the LRA of 64.4 is 41.86 amps but not sure if they are referring to pumps LRA.

What is more confusing is some pump / well companies carry a Honda 6500 watt generator on their trucks that start & run 3hp submersible pumps & i have checked & those Honda's 6500 watt gens are externally regulated not internally regulated.
Have pretty much made up my mind to get the wgen9500watt dual fuel surge to 12500 watts on gas 11200 surge on propane & just let the chips fall where they may. I had found a few Winco & Wacker Neuson INTERNALLY regulated portable gens that were around 6700 watts but price was over $6,000.
Got to get back to cutting trees and debrie from last hurricane & prepping for the next one they say will be here Wednesday / Thursday. Thanx for all info & listening to my pissin & moaning.
V R Dwayne
 
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