Pressure tank is slowly losing pressure.

[WesM]

I have been noticing very high electric bills for the last 4-5 months, unfortunately due to work I have not been home much except to sleep. Had a whole afternoon at home today and heard my well tank cycling every 10 minutes or so, even when no water was being used. When I checked the pressure gauge, it was dropping from 60psi to 40psi as soon as the pump finished cycling. The pump then cycles on again to bring the pressure back to 60 and repeats.

Not sure if its relevant, but I replaced the old water logged pressure tank about a year ago with a well x trol tank and everything was working correctly when the tank was replaced.

The pump is a 9 year old, 3/4 hp, 10gpm rated everbilt. Pump sits at 90ft in a 125ft deep well. Would these symptoms indicate that my well pump is toast and its time to replace the whole pump? As far as I know, there are no other check valves in my well system.

 

[Bannerman]

Could be a hole in the pipe somewhere between the pump and pressure tank, or could be a defective check valve within the submersible pump.

While adding a check valve just before the pressure tank would stop the cycling, that should be considered a temporary remedy until the cause of the issue is identified and repairs are made.

If the issue is the pump's internal check valve, an external check valve maybe threaded directly to the pump's outlet fitting, in between the pump and drop pipe.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[WesM]

I thought about the temporary check valve. Might be something to throw on there in the short term till I can get time to pull the pump or get a company out here to do it for me.

Is there any way to diagnose an issue with the polly pipe vs the check valve without pulling the pump? I'm going to try and get out there tomorrow and pull the cap off. I figure if I can hear water running when the pump is off, that might indicate a split in the pipe.

If its an issue with the pumps internal check valve, I'm inclined to just replace the whole thing. I don't want to have to pull the pump more then once every 10 years or so. For a cheap HD special I threw in there when I was a new homeowner, the current pump has had a long enough life.

 

[Reach4]

Turn off the valve to the house to make sure that does not stop the cycling. Unlikely, but easy.

Do you have a pitless? If so, check visually and listen to see if there might be a leak at the pitless inside of the casing.

Also, there could be a leak outside of the casing. Look for moist ground or extra-green grass.

 

[WesM]

Can confirm with the valve to the house off, pressure still drops. Cannot detect any audible signs of leaks with the well cap off. Also no unusual dampness around the casing.

I have a pitless inside the casing, but don't see any leaks around it.

I have a contractor coming out to give me estimates on pump replacement. If the sticker shock is too severe, I will plan to replace the pump myself.

 

[Reach4]

When you get the pump pulled, the primary thing is to check for holes in the pipe.

You could have a check valve installed right above the pump as a backup to the check valve in the pump.

I had a 12-year old Sta-rite Trimline pump with a 2-wire Franklin motor pulled as part of getting my pit demolished to install a pitless. I had that pump put back, figuring it might last as long or longer than a new pump might. My casing is 4 inch steel. If I had the existing pump pulled for any reason, I would have it replaced with a 3-inch SQ pump with probably a 3-inch flow inducer. A 4 inch pump in 4 inch PVC is OK, but even a Trimline 4-inch pump risks getting stuck in 4 inch steel casing. Trimline 4 inch pump is actually 3.75 OD, and usual 4 inch pump is 3.9 inch OD.

If I had an Everbilt pump pulled, I would probably replace it -- not based on actual information of Everbilt pump longevity. Everbilt is a Home Depot house brand.

It is usually recommended to replace the o-ring on a pitless adapter at each pull. Not sure how often that is done in practice, but don't you wish you had a record of what the pitless is so that you could have an o-ring on hand? Your well person may have those handy.

If you pull the pump, take a photo of both labels of each pump, particularly the new one, and store numbers for your records.

If you have numbers attached to the wall or pressure tank, be warned that some well workers will slap their own label over existing labels. If you had well or pump data written on the label, that could get over-stickered.

 

[Reach4]

While adding a check valve just before the pressure tank would stop the cycling, that should be considered a temporary remedy until the cause of the issue is identified and repairs are made.

Is there any way to diagnose an issue with the polly pipe vs the check valve without pulling the pump?

It occurs to me that if you did put that temporary check valve in place, and you hooked a combo pressure+vacuum gauge to the well side, you could get info. If, for example, a 730 mmHg vacuum after a while, that would indicate the failure would be under water-- check valve or hole.

If the vacuum goes to say 100 mmHg, then I would suspect a small leak underground or near the pitless.

There are some check valves that have a tapped 1/8 inch tapped hole on the input side. Some have a hole on the output side. https://merrillmfg.com/products/no-lead-bronze-double-tap-check-valves# has both.

A hole in a poly pipe near the pump could have been from overheating because the pump was pumping into a deadhead condition for a while.

 

[WesM]

Yeah, if I pull the pump, I'm going to replace it, regardless of what condition the pipe is in. 9 years old home depot pump, probably 6 months to a year pumping into a waterlogged tank and then another 5-6 months running every 15 minutes. This things probably on borrowed time.

Current pump is a 3/4hp, 10gpm everbilt.

Looking at the well drillers report from 1976. My well is 125 feet deep, tested at 10 gpm for 2 hours. water sits 30 feet below ground level when not pumping. 6 inch steel casing. Pump sits at 75 feet below ground level.

I have a WX-250 44 gallon tank with a 40-60 switch. Would I be better off getting a 7 gpm pump instead of the 10 gpm pump?

 

[Reach4]

Yeah, if I pull the pump, I'm going to replace it, regardless of what condition the pipe is in. 9 years old home depot pump, probably 6 months to a year pumping into a waterlogged tank and then another 5-6 months running every 15 minutes. This things probably on borrowed time.

This sounds like you are doing lawn irrigation. A CSV is very good for minimizing that cycling for irrigation.

I have a WX-250 44 gallon tank with a 40-60 switch. Would I be better off getting a 7 gpm pump instead of the 10 gpm pump?

I am thinking a 1/2 HP pump is probably a better match. A 7 gpm pump will cost more than a 10 gpm pump, because it usually has more stages.

Those are tables for two 10 GPM Franklin J-class pumps. Here the depth to water is handled separately from the house PSI. You would prefer to stay in the shaded area, even when the water pressure is down to the cut-on pressure.

The 1/2 HP 10 gpm fits your situation better than the 3/4 HP 10 gpm.

 

[Valveman]

Like Reach says a Cycle Stop Valve would be very advantageous. The water logged tank and the faulty check valve on the pump are both symptoms of a pump that is cycling on and off too much. You will really like the strong constant pressure as well. I would stay with a 10 GPM series as it gives you more volume if needed.

 

[WesM]

I have looked at the CSV and will definitely use one when I build a new house for myself. I have some concerns about using them on an older system though, since I read they induce higher pressure in the pipes. A CSV is outside the scope for this current project though, main goal is to just get it back to working correctly.

The waterlogged tank I replaced was almost 30 years old, so well past its expected lifespan.

What do you guys think of this pump? Gould seems to have a GS and CS line. I cannot find very much information on the differences between them, except that the CS has a non serviceable pump.

Goulds 10CS05422C, 10GPM, 1/2HP, 230V, 2 Wire, 4" CS Series Submersible Well Pump

Goulds 10CS05422C, 10GPM, 1/2HP, 230V, 2 Wire, 4" CS Series Submersible Well Pump #product-description { font-family: Arial, sans-serif; margin: 20px; } table { border-collapse: collapse; width: 100%; }...

aquascience.net

 

[Reach4]

https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1083169&mid=9899665 says "the GS is a fully rebuildable pump, where the CS is a crimped head non-rebuildable wet end."

 

[WesM]

https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1083169&mid=9899665 says "the GS is a fully rebuildable pump, where the CS is a crimped head non-rebuildable wet end."

I would probably just end up replacing the wet end if it did go bad. Would it be safe to say the Goulds should be a decent step up from the big box store pumps?

 

[Valveman]

Cramped heads are not holding up.

 

[WesM]

My local supplier is trying to sell me on DAB pumps. Specifically the S4 line. Do you guys know anything about them?

 

[WesM]

Pulled the pump with a buddy today. Turned out it was a bad check valve. Installed check valve just above the pump and everything is working for now.

Turns out it was a good thing I pulled the pump, ground wire was half abraded through in one spot. Put in a splice kit and plan to pull the pump in a week or so when I have all the supplies and a new pump to install.

 

[Valveman]

Frayed wires and failed check valves are just a couple more problems that the CSV prevents. Just saying.