Possible issue in salt tank

[sm30]

My system is now 1 year old and I am noticing that after every regeneration there is a lot of black residue left inside our salt tank (picture attached). This has been happening for quite a few months now.

I am thinking it's from the softener and/or carbon tank. Trying to clean it out every time is a pain. Any issues or concerns that I am facing here?

Thanks.

 

[Bannerman]

Carbon contains significant dust and small particles (fines) when produced. It seems you are using a non backwashing In/Out head on the carbon tank so the carbon was likely not flushed and rinsed to remove the small particles prior to being placed into service.

The situation will be further compounded with placing 1.5 ft3 carbon into a 9"X 48" tank. That size tank is appropriate for 1 ft3 media to provide adequate freeboard space to backwash away debris and reclassify the carbon media when using a backwashing filter control valve. Since the small particles will be jammed between carbon granules that cannot move, the fines and dust will continue to be slowly released only while the flow rate is sufficient to force the debris out from between the carbon granules.

Always recommended to backwash carbon on a regular basis. For those that insist on using a non backwashing filter, a garden hose should be connected in an alternating fashion to the inlet and outlet ports, so fresh water will be forced to flow in each direction through the media to eliminate debris. Not certain how beneficial that procedure will be with so much media tightly packed into the tank.

Here is a short writeup regarding starting-up a carbon system.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/36

 

[Sponsor]

 

[sm30]

Carbon contains significant dust and small particles (fines) when produced. It seems you are using a non backwashing In/Out head on the carbon tank so the carbon was likely not flushed and rinsed to remove the small particles prior to being placed into service.

The situation will be further compounded with placing 1.5 ft3 carbon into a 9"X 48" tank. That size tank is appropriate for 1 ft3 media to provide adequate freeboard space to backwash away debris and reclassify the carbon media when using a backwashing filter control valve. Since the small particles will be jammed between carbon granules that cannot move, the fines and dust will continue to be slowly released only while the flow rate is sufficient to force the debris out from between the carbon granules.

Always recommended to backwash carbon on a regular basis. For those that insist on using a non backwashing filter, a garden hose should be connected in an alternating fashion to the inlet and outlet ports, so fresh water will be forced to flow in each direction through the media to eliminate debris. Not certain how beneficial that procedure will be with so much media tightly packed into the tank.

Here is a short writeup regarding starting-up a carbon system.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/36

That's correct it's a non backwashing upflow carbon tank. I did question the size of the carbon tank when I first got it, but the company said 1.5 ft3 carbon will work fine.

Sorry I assume this is carbon dust/particles in my salt tank right? Will this cause any issues or concerns with my softener?

 

[Bannerman]

Based on the info and photos you provided, I am also assuming the black specks are caused by insufficiently rinsed carbon.

The amount of carbon is not the issue. 1.5 ft3 is the usual recommended minimum amount and a greater quantity is always better. In a backwashing system, 1.5 ft3 media would usually be installed in a 10" X 54" tank.

The actual issues are the lack of backwashing, and the amount of media stuffed into a small tank.

The link below shows typical configurations for up-flow non-backwashing carbon filter tanks. As you can see, the recommended media quantity for a 9" X 48" tank is 0.75 ft3. Without a backwashing valve, you are reliant on water flow to faucets and appliances to cause the media to backwash each time water is being used. Because that flow rate is not consistent, less media will be installed to reduce the potential for media loss into the home's plumbing system when the flow rate is greatest causing the media to be lifted high in the tank.

Although it may be configured for upflow, because your tank is stuffed full, the media cannot move, lift and reclassify so water flow will eventually follow the same path through the media (channel), causing the carbon along that path to become overused compared to the remaining media. This can quickly reduce the effectiveness of the carbon as a filter.

When periodically backwashing carbon media, the media will be redistributed (reclassified) which will eliminate any channels so the flow path will be refreshed. Carbon fines and other debris that enter within the supply water will be flushed out to drain during each backwash cycle as opposed to flowing into your home's plumbing as is now occuring.

Water softener resin is not a good filter media so some carbon fines will likely make their way through the resin to end up in your faucet aerators. Because a water softener utilizes a backwash cycle, I anticipate the majority of carbon fines that enter the resin will be back washed out to drain, but I suspect some may become caught in the softener's injector which may result in occasional brine draw issues.

You may want to consider installing cartridge sediment filters both before and after the carbon filter. The one after should prevent carbon particles from entering the softener, and the filter prior to prevent any sediment and debris from entering the carbon from the incoming supply.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/32-33

 

[ditttohead]

Pellet salt is 99.9% pure, the math is simple, .1% is a lot of "not salt". Dirt, bird droppings, rat hairs etc... this is normal and is usually ignored other than cleaning the slat tank occasionally. It could be from your carbon tank but that is not too likely. Upflow carbon is not typically considered optimal. Downflow with a backwash is preferable.

 

[sm30]

I have reached out to the installer to see what we can do about this. If they offer to move the 1.5 cu.ft carbon to the 10" x 54" upflow tank, would this be a better option than what I currently have? Or would it be pointless and I should leave it with the 9" x 48" tank?

I highly doubt that they would move me to the 10" x 54" downflow tank with a backwash without me purchasing it out of pocket. I know this is the better option but I have already paid a good sum for the current tank.

 

[sm30]

Anyone have any feedback on my above question?

I received a response back from the installer and here is what they said:

"I am going to recommend you bypass your carbon filter until we are able to visit your home. In the meantime, if you simply bypass the carbon filter, no further fines can escape. Also, the 1.5 cubic foot catalytic carbon is commonly packed into 948 tanks, unlike standard carbon which needs more freeboard and is more commonly packed into 1054 tanks. You have catalytic carbon.

It is possible that the upper media screen inside the tank has loosened. I'm not saying that's for certain, but we have seen it."​

 

[ditttohead]

Post a picture of your carbon tank, you may be able to simply add a backwashing valve to it.

 

[sm30]

Post a picture of your carbon tank, you may be able to simply add a backwashing valve to it.

Let me know if you need a side picture of the carbon tank as well.

 

[ditttohead]

Easy to add a backwashing valve.

 

[sm30]

Easy to add a backwashing valve.

It's been mentioned here that a 9"x48" tank is too small for 1.5 cu.ft of catalytic carbon. By adding a backwashing valve to that tank, would that be a problem? Or would I run into the same issue I am facing now?

 

[sm30]

@ditttohead @Bannerman sorry to be a bother, can I get some clarification to my question in my above post?

 

[Reach4]

It's been mentioned here that a 9"x48" tank is too small for 1.5 cu.ft of catalytic carbon. By adding a backwashing valve to that tank, would that be a problem? Or would I run into the same issue I am facing now?

I think 1.5 cuft in a 9*48 tank is too crowded to backwash. 1 cuft would leave room to backwash. I am not a pro.

 

[ditttohead]

maximum recommended is 1 ft3.

 

[Bannerman]

I have previously commented so there is not much more to add.

the 1.5 cubic foot catalytic carbon is commonly packed into 948 tanks, unlike standard carbon which needs more freeboard and is more commonly packed into 1054 tanks.

This is incorrect.

To compare the size of tank typically utilized for a 1.5 ft3 Catalytic Carbon vs 1.5 ft3 GAC backwashing systems, the links below are to Ditttohead's catalogue showing various carbon systems.

Fleck 5810 Carbon: https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/44-45

Fleck 5800 Carbon: https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/38-39

Fleck 5600 Carbon: https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/58-59

 

[sm30]

I have previously commented so there is not much more to add.

This is incorrect.

To compare the size of tank typically utilized for a 1.5 ft3 Catalytic Carbon vs 1.5 ft3 GAC backwashing systems, the links below are to Ditttohead's catalogue showing various carbon systems.

Fleck 5810 Carbon: https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/44-45

Fleck 5800 Carbon: https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/38-39

Fleck 5600 Carbon: https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/58-59

Thanks for the links. I posted the response the installer gave me a few posts above and as you can tell it's the opposite from the feedback here.

I am trying to work out my options and so far it looks like I have two (unless I am missing another).

1. Install a sediment filter after the carbon.
2. Replace the 9"x48" tank with a 10"x54" (upflow or backwashing)
3. Leave as is, however I have to deal with carbon fines entering my plumbing system.

 

[ditttohead]

I ship many thousands of carbon tanks a year, you should not have to deal with fines... If your existing system is upflow, remove the cap, replace the upper screen with a fine mesh heavy duty screen, (not the junk one most companies use to save $10) and add a "floating gravel" to the tank. This is a special media that simulates gravel but it floats so it protects the top screen. These items are cheap and easy to add to your existing unit.

 

[sm30]

I ship many thousands of carbon tanks a year, you should not have to deal with fines... If your existing system is upflow, remove the cap, replace the upper screen with a fine mesh heavy duty screen, (not the junk one most companies use to save $10) and add a "floating gravel" to the tank. This is a special media that simulates gravel but it floats so it protects the top screen. These items are cheap and easy to add to your existing unit.

Do you know of any Canadian sources to get the screen and "floating gravel" from? If not other recommendations are welcome.

Given I have 1.5 cu.ft of catalytic carbon in a 9"x48" tank do you still recommend adding "floating gravel"? Or would there even be enough room to do so?

 

[Izabella]

Carbon contains significant dust and small particles (fines) when produced. It seems you are using a non backwashing In/Out head on the carbon tank so the carbon was likely not flushed and rinsed to remove the small particles prior to being placed into service.

The situation will be further compounded with placing 1.5 ft3 carbon into a 9"X 48" tank. That size tank is appropriate for 1 ft3 media to provide adequate freeboard space to backwash away debris and reclassify the carbon media when using a backwashing filter control valve. Since the small particles will be jammed between carbon granules that cannot move, the fines and dust will continue to be slowly released only while the flow rate is sufficient to force the debris out from between the carbon granules.

Always recommended to backwash carbon on a regular basis. For those that insist on using a non backwashing filter, a garden hose should be connected in an alternating fashion to the inlet and outlet ports, so fresh water will be forced to flow in each direction through the media to eliminate debris. Not certain how beneficial that procedure will be with so much media tightly packed into the tank.

Here is a short writeup regarding starting-up a carbon system.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/36

Several water softeners remove heavy minerals from the water by drawing them from the water or by neutralizing them to prevent them from binding together and remaining soluble in the water. The water from wells has higher levels of iron, plus sediment, which may require a specific filter. This article will give you some pointers about the best water softener for well water with iron and other contaminants.

 

[sm30]

I ship many thousands of carbon tanks a year, you should not have to deal with fines... If your existing system is upflow, remove the cap, replace the upper screen with a fine mesh heavy duty screen, (not the junk one most companies use to save $10) and add a "floating gravel" to the tank. This is a special media that simulates gravel but it floats so it protects the top screen. These items are cheap and easy to add to your existing unit.

@ditttohead
Do you know of any Canadian sources to get the screen and "floating gravel" from? If not other recommendations are welcome.

Given I have 1.5 cu.ft of catalytic carbon in a 9"x48" tank do you still recommend adding "floating gravel"? Or would there even be enough room to do so?