PEX(?) to copper connector

[OneStaple]

Hey,

I'm replacing some valves (PRV and shutoff) near the service entrance to my house. Given that the copper is 40 years old (built in 1986), some houses of this vintage in the county are seeing pin-hole leaks, and we plan to finish the basement in the near-ish future, I was going to replace some of the nearby type M copper with new type L.

I could use some help with the connection shown in the picture. The connector appears to be a compression connector on both ends between the copper (3/4") and some sort of plastic service entrance pipe. I'm not sure if that's PVC, PEX, or something else, as I haven't worked a lot with non-copper pipes. I know PEX existed in the 80's, but I don't think it was terribly popular yet. The OD is about 1.142", which is right between 3/4" and 1" PVC, and roughly the same as 1" PEX.

So first, I'd appreciate help with identifying what type of pipe that is so I can get the right connector. Secondly, if there's a better style connector that you'd recommend, let me know.

And if the best advice is to simply not touch it because it's not actively giving me problems, let me know. I can leave old copper for the first 10" or so and replace beyond that.

Thanks,
Tyler

 

[Reach4]

I would check the pH of your water.

One inch IPS HDPE pipe would be the same OD as 1 inch PEX = 1.125 inch. You might have one inch PEX, or some other CTS sized pipe.

https://www.jmeagle.com/sites/default/files/JM%20Eagle_HDPE_WaterService_IPS_CTS_SIDR.pdf

 

[Sponsor]

 

[OneStaple]

I have some strips for checking water in a hot tub. Based on the visual color matching on those, the house water is roughly 6.5. Maybe a hair lower, depending on how you squint at it, but not below 6.2.

I was able to get some pictures of the underside of that connector. It says 1" SDR-9 on that side, which appears to be in line with CTS sized pipe. The top end of the connector where the copper comes out says 3/4" SDR-II.

I can't see any labeling on the sides of that little stub of blue pipe.

Regardless of whether it's PEX or another CTS-sized pipe, am I just looking for an in-kind compression fitting, or is there something better? Can I reuse what's there (I assume that's not ideal)?

Tyler

 

[Reach4]

I have some strips for checking water in a hot tub. Based on the visual color matching on those, the house water is roughly 6.5. Maybe a hair lower, depending on how you squint at it, but not below 6.2.

You can get electronic pH meters cheap. Preferably get one that comes with calibration buffer packets. You put 250ml of distilled water into a clean glass jar, and add a packet. Put the lid on between uses. Calibrate each use. Put calibration solution into the cap, and store cap-down.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/225361540744 for example.

 

[OneStaple]

Well, at least based on my quick method of getting a pH approximately 6.5, I'm at the low end of the acceptable range. I appreciate the lead on getting a more accurate tester for the future. I would assume that if I do future measurements and this seems to be a problem, installing a remedy would be a decently significant undertaking. But also something that I can do/add later.

For now, I need to figure out what to do about replacing that connector between the service pipe and copper.

Tyler

 

[Reach4]

The reason I was suggesting you checking the pH better is because you are considering putting in more copper.

 

[Bannerman]

To protect the pipe, the buried pipe that is penetrating through the concrete floor, could possibly be plastic covered copper, similar to that shown here: Plastic Coated Copper Pipe

 

[OneStaple]

The reason I was suggesting you checking the pH better is because you are considering putting in more copper.

Gotcha. Sounds like it's worth testing. But the two remedies seem like they'd be either replacing all the copper pipes in the house with PEX, or installing a whole-house pH correction near the source, correct? The first seems cost prohibitive. What about the second?

Given that the existing pipes have lasted 40 years with no signs that I see of pinhole leaks (we've only been in this house for a year), I would imagine that low pH is not a major problem, and it seems like new type L pipe should buy me at least another 40 years.

Our prior house (10 minutes away, and in the same county) was five years older (~45 years old), and we'd gotten one pinhole leak near the end of our fifteen years of living there.

Tyler

 

[OneStaple]

To protect the pipe, the buried pipe that is penetrating through the concrete floor, could possibly be plastic covered copper, similar to that shown here: Plastic Coated Copper Pipe

That seems like it'd be nice! Is there any way to tell without taking it apart, given the lack of labels on the short piece I can see?

I just ran over to a plumbing supply place, and they didn't seem to carry what I needed, but they mentioned that it might be a flo-lock connector. They also mentioned that it's possible that I have a pipe called "big blue" (or polybutylene) that was popular in the 80's and sounds like it has some durability issues. I don't currently have issues, but hope that's not what I have! Again, I'm not sure how to tell, or if I can without taking it apart.

Tyler

 

[Reach4]

Gotcha. Sounds like it's worth testing. But the two remedies seem like they'd be either replacing all the copper pipes in the house with PEX, or installing a whole-house pH correction near the source, correct? The first seems cost prohibitive. What about the second?

About the price of a softener. You can run the water thru calcite, or you can inject soda ash, which has the advantage of not raising hardness.

I would wonder why the water department doesn't raise the pH. A lot cheaper per house that way.

Given that the existing pipes have lasted 40 years with no signs that I see of pinhole leaks (we've only been in this house for a year), I would imagine that low pH is not a major problem, and it seems like new type L pipe should buy me at least another 40 years.

Type L pipe is significantly thicker than type M.

I wonder if you could keep the same white connector, pull the old and insert the new. I don't know if there is a single-use aspect.

 

[OneStaple]

I wonder if you could keep the same white connector, pull the old and insert the new. I don't know if there is a single-use aspect.

Maybe? Some of the similar ones I've seen appear to have a rubber ring (not o-ring) to compression seal the connection, so I'd be nervous about that not being able to reseal after 40 years. I think I'd only be comfy doing it if I had a spare in hand just in case.

I did pick up a Sharkbite Prolock CTS 1"-to-3/4" reducer coupling (model PL012822A). It's the only thing I found in stock today that appears to work for connecting the two pipes. I believe it would work, other than I'm nervous to pull the old coupling off the plastic line in case it's a "big blue" as I mentioned a couple posts up and I create a bigger problem in some way. I just don't have a good feel for how much risk there is for creating a bigger problem, given that I'm not sure of the pipe type.

Tyler

 

[Eman85]

Where does the other end of the blue pipe go to? If it's the meter see if you can get a better look at it there and see if there is any writing on it.

 

[OneStaple]

Where does the other end of the blue pipe go to? If it's the meter see if you can get a better look at it there and see if there is any writing on it.

I would assume the meter? The meter is out in the yard about 20' away in a water meter pit with gravel and mud all around the meter. The connections from the meter go down vertically instead of horizontally, so I can't really see anything except the meter body without some major digging. And I certainly wouldn't want to disturb the pipes. So is that worth it?

Tyler

 

[Eman85]

Is mud all around the meter normal? Can you see what type of connector couples the blue pipe to the meter? PEX is common around here but there is a blue pipe with a clear inner liner that is used for water lines. It is usually larger diameter and uses brass compression fittings.