Panasonic Whisper Green Select with Light/Nightlight

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Singhsongs

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Hello,

I have a Panasonic Whsiper Green Select fan the model #is FV-1115VKL2. Getting this installed has been an absolute nightmare. I replaced a fan that had a light, nightlight and fan. How hard could this be? Well my friend I’m on day 2 of trying to get the fan to work.

I have the regular light on a rocker with my vanity light, the fan has its own switch, and the nightlight has its own switch. All of these switches work properly for basic use.

I am stuck on the use of the modules for this unit! I have the timing module because I read that there is not a timer switch that would work with this thing and this particular model isn’t even on Panasonic’s switch chart!

Anyways, I do NOT want the fan to be continuous so I have the time delay set at 20 minutes. I have the CFM on this module set to because Panasonic tech support told me that by doing this the fan will run at the pick a flow default speed of 130CFM for 20 minutes after I turn the switch off. However, when I turn the switch off the fan turns off. I have tried turning the CFM to match the pick a flow.

The instructions on what to do with these red wires are a little vague. Is this saying that I need a fourth switch just for these wires. The wires are not supposed to be connected to a power supply. Do these wires go on the fan switch somehow or do I just have a dummy switch that needs to stay on forever for this module to work? Nothing seemed to mention this.

Thanks.

4547AD87-DE30-46C6-8923-9F69230D7CF7.jpeg
 

Stuff

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To use the timer and other advance features you need to leave the main power switch on all the time. Then use a switch connected to the two red wires as a "on/off" switch and you should get the delay.

You can use a timer switch but you lose the "features" of these like motion and humidity.
 

Fitter30

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From a psc multi speed motor these motors are more electronic (ecm) than any other electric motors. Those motors started in higher end furnaces 12-14 years ago because of the efficiency.
 

Singhsongs

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To use the timer and other advance features you need to leave the main power switch on all the time. Then use a switch connected to the two red wires as a "on/off" switch and you should get the delay.

You can use a timer switch but you lose the "features" of these like motion and humidity.

So, I called Panasonic and they pretty much told me what you just said. LOL. I want to buypass having one switch on all the time. Can I just twist and cap the black wires into the box and then do the same with the neutrals? What do I do with the red wires and the ground then? I watched a video that said that I would connect the ground wire to the HOT on the switch then I should just put the red wires on either side of the switch to close the loop. Does that sound like it will work?
 

Singhsongs

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From a psc multi speed motor these motors are more electronic (ecm) than any other electric motors. Those motors started in higher end furnaces 12-14 years ago because of the efficiency.

Aside from the horrible wiring directions, I am very happy with the fan. It is incredibly quiet and I have it on 130CFM. I am almost wondering if this pick a flow thing is a gimmick because I expected to notice the noise when the CFM increased.
 

wwhitney

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Looking at the wiring diagram, you need to have the following building wires running to the fan location, assuming one branch circuit:

Black - Constant hot (could be switched, but it will kill the fan, so it's not a control, just a disconnect)
White - Neutral
(2) Non-whites - For the signal switch loop
(1) Non-white - 120V power for the light, this can be on a dimmer
(1) Non-white - 120V power for the night light

So for example if wiring in new construction you could put in a triple gang box, with a standard switch for the "signal switch," a dimmer or occupancy control for the light, and a standard switch for the night light. Then you'd run 6 conductors from the triple gang box to the fan, e.g. (2) 12/3 or 14/3 NM cables that follow the same path and are stapled together, with the white of one cable reidentified to a non-white color. And if the fan junction box is metal, both cables entering the box through the same hole.

Since this is a remodel situation, what arrangement of switches, boxes, and cables to the fan location do you have, and can you achieve the above without pulling new cables?

Cheers, Wayne
 

Fitter30

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Red wires if you only want hi speed can just wire nut them together low speed just cap them off independently. No switch is needed if using one speed. For light they want a two pole switch single throw.
 

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So, I called Panasonic and they pretty much told me what you just said. LOL. I want to buypass having one switch on all the time. Can I just twist and cap the black wires into the box and then do the same with the neutrals? What do I do with the red wires and the ground then? I watched a video that said that I would connect the ground wire to the HOT on the switch then I should just put the red wires on either side of the switch to close the loop. Does that sound like it will work?
That video doesn't sound right. Switch would have a ground screw/terminal for a ground wire. Then the two reds go to the two connectors on a normal snap switch.

The black wire needs a switch (disconnect) within site for most codes.

If you want only one switch and it to have a timer function then you need a switch with a built in timer (wire-nut the two reds together). If you want to use Panasonic's built in timer then you need two switches.
 

wwhitney

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The black wire needs a switch (disconnect) within site for most codes.
Usually an allowable alternative would be to install permanent means for putting a lock on the breaker supplying the branch circuit.

Cheers, Wayne
 

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Usually an allowable alternative would be to install permanent means for putting a lock on the breaker supplying the branch circuit.
True. Actually since the fan is less than 300VA neither lock or within site is called for per code. The installation instructions do show a power switch so that would take precedence. Likely an inspector would freak out if they turned off the switch and the fan didn't stop.
 

wwhitney

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True. Actually since the fan is less than 300VA neither lock or within site is called for per code.
That changed in the 2017 NEC, under 300VA and under 1/8 HP now requires a breaker lock.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Singhsongs

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That changed in the 2017 NEC, under 300VA and under 1/8 HP now requires a breaker lock.

Cheers, Wayne

I’m wondering would I be able to use a single pole double throw switch, a double pole switch, or a double pole double throw switch? (this one is harder to find in a rocker style) for the fan. I already have the gang box installed pulled the red signal wires (they are not hooked up). I have all the other switches in and working.

What do I have to do to these switches so I don’t fry my fans motherboard?

Basically, I’d do anything to not have a switch that doesn’t do anything.

Thanks.
 
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wwhitney

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What is the make and model of the panel that has the breaker that kills power to this circuit?

As to the wiring, I think you'd need to provide a diagram to get proper advice. A schematic showing a box for the fan location and for each electrical box, with lines showing the type, size, and number of electrical cables between the various boxes, would work.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Singhsongs

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What is the make and model of the panel that has the breaker that kills power to this circuit?

As to the wiring, I think you'd need to provide a diagram to get proper advice. A schematic showing a box for the fan location and for each electrical box, with lines showing the type, size, and number of electrical cables between the various boxes, would work.

Cheers, Wayne

It’s a Siemens G2020B110/CU G2020L1125/CU

As for the switch it’s 15 amps. All I am asking is: is there a switch I can use that will provide the constant power to the fan and also make the red wire connections without harming the red wires by providing life power?

I am thinking that if I get a double pole switch the fan and the signal will both turn the fan on.

When I turn off the switch I want the delay to kick in and not kill power to the fan so it could do that.
 

wwhitney

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It’s a Siemens G2020B110/CU G2020L1125/CU
So if you don't have a switch in the bathroom that kills power completely to the fan, you'd need a breaker lock permanently attached at the panel. That would let anyone wanting to work on the fan to shutoff the breaker, put a padlock in the breaker lock bracket, and be sure the breaker won't be turned on. If the breaker is a 1" Siemens type Q single pole breaker (not tandem), then I think (not very confident) the breaker lock device is ECQLD3:

https://mall.industry.siemens.com/mall/en/us/Catalog/Product/?mlfb=US2:ECQLD3

Note that the breaker lock bracket has to be the style that is designed to be permanently installed at the panel (typically the cover gets removed, the bracket put on, and then the cover replaced, and that secures the bracket somehow). It can't be a portable kind you can easily install and remove, it needs to be harder to remove (the bracket itself, which when installed shouldn't affect the breaker use/behavior unless it has a padlock on it).

As for the switch it’s 15 amps. All I am asking is: is there a switch I can use that will provide the constant power to the fan and also make the red wire connections without harming the red wires by providing life power?

I am thinking that if I get a double pole switch the fan and the signal will both turn the fan on.

When I turn off the switch I want the delay to kick in and not kill power to the fan so it could do that.
I am confused by this request. What is the behavior you want? Switch in position A, fan is off; toggle to position B, fan is on; toggle to position A, fan turns off after delay? Or instead of off/on, low speed (always on) and high speed?

For the first option, you can either have the delay implemented by the fan (I believe it supports it), or if the fan doesn't need power for some other function (light, night light) or those functions have separate power, you could use a delay built into the switch. Implemented by the fan is more elegant. For the second option, the delay has to be implemented by the fan (well, absent a relay).

For delay implemented by the fan, you just provide constant power to the fan (hence the need for a breaker lock) and you use a normal 2 way (SPST) switch in the wall for the red wires (assuming that provides the on/off or hi/lo control). For delay implemented by the switch, you use one of the special switches with delay built in, and you either leave the red wires capped off, or you wirenut them together, as required by the fan's logic. If the delay wall switch has a "definite off" position (which might require removing the wall plate), i.e. a way to defeat the delay, then I think that would qualify as a disconnect and preclude the need for a breaker lock.

Cheers, Wayne
 

Singhsongs

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So if you don't have a switch in the bathroom that kills power completely to the fan, you'd need a breaker lock permanently attached at the panel. That would let anyone wanting to work on the fan to shutoff the breaker, put a padlock in the breaker lock bracket, and be sure the breaker won't be turned on. If the breaker is a 1" Siemens type Q single pole breaker (not tandem), then I think (not very confident) the breaker lock device is ECQLD3:

https://mall.industry.siemens.com/mall/en/us/Catalog/Product/?mlfb=US2:ECQLD3

Note that the breaker lock bracket has to be the style that is designed to be permanently installed at the panel (typically the cover gets removed, the bracket put on, and then the cover replaced, and that secures the bracket somehow). It can't be a portable kind you can easily install and remove, it needs to be harder to remove (the bracket itself, which when installed shouldn't affect the breaker use/behavior unless it has a padlock on it).


I am confused by this request. What is the behavior you want? Switch in position A, fan is off; toggle to position B, fan is on; toggle to position A, fan turns off after delay? Or instead of off/on, low speed (always on) and high speed?

For the first option, you can either have the delay implemented by the fan (I believe it supports it), or if the fan doesn't need power for some other function (light, night light) or those functions have separate power, you could use a delay built into the switch. Implemented by the fan is more elegant. For the second option, the delay has to be implemented by the fan (well, absent a relay).

For delay implemented by the fan, you just provide constant power to the fan (hence the need for a breaker lock) and you use a normal 2 way (SPST) switch in the wall for the red wires (assuming that provides the on/off or hi/lo control). For delay implemented by the switch, you use one of the special switches with delay built in, and you either leave the red wires capped off, or you wirenut them together, as required by the fan's logic. If the delay wall switch has a "definite off" position (which might require removing the wall plate), i.e. a way to defeat the delay, then I think that would qualify as a disconnect and preclude the need for a breaker lock.

Cheers, Wayne

This fan has 3 wiring methods. I’m doing the method that also incorporates the modules. I will not be continuously running this fan which I want to control it by a switch. I want all the functions of the fan, but I only want to utilize three switches.

I want ONE switch that I can use to control the fan on/off when I turn the fan off I want the time delay module on the fan to kick in and run for an additional 20 minutes. The way the directions are I need 2 switches for the fan.

I am just asking if there is a switch/wiring method I can use to do this. The fan is currently connected and working, BUT the delay isn’t working because the red wires aren’t hooked to anything.

I have honestly spent a month trying to find an answer to this very seemingly simple question.

As for the the breaker lock is image anyone wanting to work on the fan would turn off power anyways. I don’t see what actually having a lock on my breaker does if they don’t even bother to turn it off. I was just going to twist and cap the live connections label them and tuck it into the box. I don’t have to have a permit or electrical inspection for interior work.
 
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wwhitney

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If you want to have the time delay module in the fan provide the delay then you need to provide constant power to the fan, and you need to use the red wires for on/off control, by putting a standard 2-way switch between the 2 wires. [Setting the high speed to your desired CFM, the low speed to 0 CFM. At least I recall that the fan supports that, I haven't double checked.]

Then as you also need a disconnect, you either need to have the extra switch that really does kill power to the fan (which you'll never use except while servicing the fan), or you'll need to install a breaker lock as mentioned above.

An alternative, if you have a neutral conductor for the circuit in the box with the fan switch, is to use a fan switch with a delay off function, and forget about the delay module in the fan. E.g.

https://www.broan-nutone.com/en-us/accessory/64w

That particular one also has an immediate off setting, so you wouldn't need a separate disconnect or breaker lock.

Cheres, Wayne
 
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