Old Copper Pipe Leaking to the Right of the Toilet Shut-Off Valve

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fanugi

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Hi all,

Have an old trailer from 76 (which is plumbed residentially), and the copper pipe (looks to be 1/2" OD) just to the right (at the nut) of the toilet shut-off valve is leaking. I don't see a pinhole...it appears to be where the nut and the pipe meet. I tightened the nut another half-turn, but that didn't help. It's a consistent drip when the water is turned on.

I've never soldered, and it's too close to a wall to do so anyway.

I was thinking of prepping with a wire brush and acetone, and then putting some PC-Plumbing Epoxy around it. I'm not sure if it will hold (or if there's a better product), but I want to do something until I can fix it properly.

Since PEX was run throughout most of the trailer anyway, is there any way to do that here? The other side of the valve has a smaller pipe, and I would be willing to replace the valve if need be. I spoke with Sharkbite, and was told the pipe is too small (?) for one of their compression fittings.

Is there any way to repair this properly without soldering?

Any insight would be sincerely appreciated!

20240812_1057592.jpg
 

Reach4

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The nut is the right-most of the two hex brass things. That is the thing you would tighten. You would use two wrenches-- one on each hex

What is off to the right? 3 ft of soft copper going right into the toilet?

Did you measure the OD of the pipe? A digital or vernier or dial caliper is the tool of choice. I like the stainless steel https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-...eter/calipers/6-in-digital-caliper-63711.html

Looking ahead, order maybe 5 replacement batteries via Ebay. LR-44 or 357 are some of the batteries that fit. In a pinch, you can get them locally, but they are a high-markup item. Or you could make the included battery last longer by removing it between uses.

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/measuring-marking/calipers-micrometer/calipers.html shows others. The long reach one can be nice for measuring bigger stuff.

Measure the OD of the thread (that has the white tape on it). Expect about either 0.68 or 0.84 inches. Those would be 3/8 or 1/2 inch NPT respectively.
 

fanugi

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The nut is the right-most of the two hex brass things. That is the thing you would tighten. You would use two wrenches-- one on each hex

What is off to the right? 3 ft of soft copper going right into the toilet?

Did you measure the OD of the pipe? A digital or vernier or dial caliper is the tool of choice. I like the stainless steel https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-...eter/calipers/6-in-digital-caliper-63711.html

Looking ahead, order maybe 5 replacement batteries via Ebay. LR-44 or 357 are some of the batteries that fit. In a pinch, you can get them locally, but they are a high-markup item. Or you could make the included battery last longer by removing it between uses.

https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/measuring-marking/calipers-micrometer/calipers.html shows others. The long reach one can be nice for measuring bigger stuff.

Measure the OD of the thread (that has the white tape on it). Expect about either 0.68 or 0.84 inches. Those would be 3/8 or 1/2 inch NPT respectively.
Thanks for the reply!

I already tightened the nut and am concerned about overtightening. I'm not exactly sure how that copper pipe is even connected to it, so maybe I should make sure that other hex to the left of it is also tight.

Off to the right is the water line. The toilet is to the left of the valve.

While I don't have that tool at the moment, I can say that the thread and the pipe to the right are 1/2". For whatever reason, the copper pipe to the left of the valve running to the toilet is 3/8".

So is there anything that can be done apart from soldering new copper? Appreciate it!
 

Reach4

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Thanks for the reply!

I already tightened the nut and am concerned about overtightening. I'm not exactly sure how that copper pipe is even connected to it, so maybe I should make sure that other hex to the left of it is also tight.

Off to the right is the water line. The toilet is to the left of the valve.

While I don't have that tool at the moment, I can say that the thread and the pipe to the right are 1/2". For whatever reason, the copper pipe to the left of the valve running to the toilet is 3/8".

So is there anything that can be done apart from soldering new copper? Appreciate it!
Got it. So what I think you have there is a compression fitting. Under that nut would be a ferrule (AKA olive).

If I were getting a leak on a compression fitting, I would try tightening. I cannot overtighten with short wrenches. People get concerned that they will crush the copper, and therefore undertighten.

If an extra 1/8 or 1/4 turn did not stop the leak, I would turn off the water to bring the pressure to zero. I would loosen the nut, and slide it back, exposing the ferrule. I would add some lubrication to the ferule and the threads, and re-tighten. The fact that things are lubed makes your attempt to tighten things will be aided by the lubrication. The same torque on the wrenches will tighten more than without lubrication.

I would use pipe dope or silicone grease, because I have that. I would probably prefer the pipe dope, in case that contributes to sealing. But in using pipe dope for this, I think it is the lubrication that has the biggest effect. But you could use lubricating oil, olive oil, bar soap or liquid dish soap. Hold off on acting to see if somebody disagrees, but I am fairly confident.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?resources/non-flex-copper-supply-riser.23/ is a little article I wrote on using chromed copper tubing out of a stop valve. The same ideas would pretty much apply to a compression fitting hooking to the input to a valve I think.

"1/2 inch" copper pipe is 0.625 (5/8) inch OD.
 

fanugi

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Got it. So what I think you have there is a compression fitting. Under that nut would be a ferrule (AKA olive).

If I were getting a leak on a compression fitting, I would try tightening. I cannot overtighten with short wrenches. People get concerned that they will crush the copper, and therefore undertighten.

If an extra 1/8 or 1/4 turn did not stop the leak, I would turn off the water to bring the pressure to zero. I would loosen the nut, and slide it back, exposing the ferrule. I would add some lubrication to the ferule and the threads, and re-tighten. The fact that things are lubed makes your attempt to tighten things will be aided by the lubrication. The same torque on the wrenches will tighten more than without lubrication.

I would use pipe dope or silicone grease, because I have that. I would probably prefer the pipe dope, in case that contributes to sealing. But in using pipe dope for this, I think it is the lubrication that has the biggest effect. But you could use lubricating oil, olive oil, bar soap or liquid dish soap. Hold off on acting to see if somebody disagrees, but I am fairly confident.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?resources/non-flex-copper-supply-riser.23/ is a little article I wrote on using chromed copper tubing out of a stop valve. The same ideas would pretty much apply to a compression fitting hooking to the input to a valve I think.

"1/2 inch" copper pipe is 0.625 (5/8) inch OD.

This is so helpful.

I think it's as tight as I can get it without lubrication. I just tried again. Would white lithium grease or Aerospace 303 work...or should I just get some pipe dope? Would be good to have some on hand anyway, and I like that idea that it might help seal.
 

Reach4

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White lithium grease should be good.
 

fanugi

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White lithium grease should be good.

Thanks again for all your help! Finally got to working on it (been so busy with the trailer), and the entire valve moves when I try to turn the nut. Any idea where I should put the other wrench? I don't want to break the pipe! Also, from the vantage point of the pic, should I be turning towards the wall or away from? Not sure if this is reverse threaded or not. Having a hard time getting a wrench on it, but need to fix this. I just picked up the pipe joing compound so that's ready to go.

Thanks!
 

Fitter30

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Thanks again for all your help! Finally got to working on it (been so busy with the trailer), and the entire valve moves when I try to turn the nut. Any idea where I should put the other wrench? I don't want to break the pipe! Also, from the vantage point of the pic, should I be turning towards the wall or away from? Not sure if this is reverse threaded or not. Having a hard time getting a wrench on it, but need to fix this. I just picked up the pipe joing compound so that's ready to go.

Thanks!
Fitting between valve and compression nut.
 

Reach4

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Turn the wrench on the compression nut away from the wall. Apply counter force (toward the wall) on the smaller hex to the left. You can apply torque by prying between the two wrenches.
 

fanugi

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Turn the wrench on the compression nut away from the wall. Apply counter force (toward the wall) on the smaller hex to the left. You can apply torque by prying between the two wrenches.
That fixed it! Thanks for making my life just a little bit better ;]
 
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