New Iron Filter still see Iron.

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2004blackwrx

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I had a culligan Iron cleer and water softner that failed and had a lot of Iron bleed through that I could smell the Iron. I was sick of Culligan and wanted a none proprietory system. I found a local retailer and went with a Iron Aeration unit that has a clack ws-1 valve and a fleck 5800 valve for the softner. Its been slightly over a month since install and I still get Iron staining in toilet bowl. I have a kaboom with chlorine toilet cleaner so the iron is coming out of the water when it contacts the chlorine. I had local guy retest. He noticed water had slight Iron in it right after iron filter and was hard after the softner. The sample was taking near the end of cycle and both units regenerated that night. The next day the sample after the iron filter was clean and whole house sample was soft. We changed Softner salt dosage from 9 to 12 lbs to prevent water turning hard at end of cycle in the future. However despite being told there is no Iron I still see staining. If i take a sample after the iron filter the day after a regen and put chlorine in the sample the water gradually turns brown. What does this mean? What can I do? Thanks. water sample results from well before filters are as follows.
Hardness 250 ppm
Iron 1.8 ppm
TDS 676
I dont remember PH but it was 7 point something
 

Reach4

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Make sure the time of day for regenerating the iron filter does not overlap the time for the iron filter.

For now you will want to adjust the settings for your softener so that it regenerates more often. Do you have the SXT controller on your softener?

Then check the piping to make sure that the water to the toilet is going through the softener.

Get a Hach 5B hardness test.

Did the water guy tell you how much residual iron remained after the iron filter? What media does the iron filter use. Is there any solution tank or oxidant injection before the iron filter? Perhaps the iron filter needs to regen more often. When it does regenerate, do you get bed expansion? If that tank is unpainted, you can shine a bright flashlight through the tank in the dark during backwash in a dark room.
 
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2004blackwrx

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The two units regens do not overlap. The test showed no iron the day after the test but does show a slight amount on the last day. The unit regens every 3 days. As previously mentioned I see brown water day after a regen if i add chlorine to a sample taking directly after iron filter. I even added iron out to the sample the chlorine turned brown and it made the water turn clear again. So i assume it is iron. I tried to regen a couple times manually in a 24 hour period with same result. The tank is blue so I do not think I can see in it with a flashlight. The softner serves the entire house I am positive about that. The valve is a 5800 xtr2 touch screen.
I see the recommendation for the Hach 5b test. Is there a good test to use for Iron.
 

2004blackwrx

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The chlorine is turning water brown even after a regen is this Iron or Iron bacteria and if so why would my water guy say my water showed no iron. And more importantly what should I do. I am frustrated with constant toilet stains of rust colored streaks.
 

Reach4

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What media does the iron filter use?
 

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I have a Katalox filter. it used to have a fleck air injection valve and it behaved the same as yours. I swapped out the fleck for a Clack ozone and it has worked flawlessly ever since on a 2 day regen cycle. I backwash at 7.5gpm for about 15 minutes, then a full 45 minutes of O3/air draw. the tank is pretty much empty of water after 15 or 20 minutes of O3 draw, and the remaining 25 minutes I believe is useful to sanitize the media and valve internals. it works so I don't want to mess with shorter O3 cycles.

some things you can try:
1) backwash every other day @ 7-8gpm, for at least 15 mins (you might need a different drain flow button)
2) ensure the air draw cycle completely empties the tank of water
3) clean the media with iron out & bleach (not at same time). you shouldn't have to after only a month, but sounds like you're iron fouled already. i cleaned my Katalox with bleach every 6 weeks until I got the ozone.

if that doesn't work I'd recommend adding O3 to your clack valve. you may have to change a few things to support it. forum member dittohead can tell you all you need to know. or ask/demand your water guy add it for you...

you should also get an iron test kit as Reach suggests. although you might want the hach IR-18 (not the 18a) the 18 has range up to 4ppm, the 18a up to 1ppm iirc. I have the IR-18 and it works well. you can also just drink the water coming out of the filter any iron will be easily detected. it shouldn't taste metallic at all. I actually prefer the water straight out of my katalox tank over the softened water, it has an effervescent mineral water quality.
 

2004blackwrx

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I am not sure of my back wash rate. I have a 7gpm well pump but I think it puts out a little more. My tank I believe is 9 inch but Ill have to double check when I get home.
My back wash cycle I believe is 10 mins and a 40 min air draw cycle. How do you tell the tank is full of air after the air draw cycle?
I probably should contact my water guy again. He is aware of the Iron staining but last I talked to him he said my iron sample came back zero and shouldnt be an issue. I have since realized its still an issue. He also wanted to see how the softness of the water is after our last adjustment but to wait till end of cycle to get a sample. I am waiting on that and will talk to him more. I was hoping for some second opinions. Maybe an easy fix or at least other thoughts so I know better what to expect. Thanks for all the ideas so far.
 

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The test results posted, is that from an actual lab test, or from a few onsite tests performed by your water guy?

If an actual lab test, post the entire report.

If not from a lab test, suggest obtaining a comprehensive report from a qualified lab such as the Standard WaterCheck Well package from National Labs.

National Labs
 

2004blackwrx

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This is from an onsite water test so I guess what can be tested that way is limited. Im going to be honest that those send away test are a bit pricy. I know they will give a lot of info but is it necessary to diagnose why chlorine is reacting with my water to make it brown. If a $200 dollar test is all that is needed to get me set up properly Im willing to but if its mostly just informational then not so much. I had to have some sort of larger test done in 2012 when buying the house so I know nothing as far as dangerous to consume is in the water. Lastly I have seen few different companies including one called tap score(seems to come with support). Does it matter which lab I choose?
 

2004blackwrx

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Below is a picture of a water sample after going through the iron filter that I added a chlorine tab to
 

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2004blackwrx

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Im ordering my own iron and hardness test kit from hach. In the mean time I routed my drain hose outside to test flow. I calculated about 5 gpm. This seems like it may be too low. I currently have a 1/2" drain line. Will a 3/4" drain line improve my backwash flow and hopefully improve my water. Should I just pop out that rubber fdrain flow button as a test to see if that does anything?
 

Bannerman

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Should I just pop out that rubber fdrain flow button as a test to see if that does anything?
The Drain Line Flow Control button is designed to determine the backwash rate. What is the flow rate imbossed on the button?

While the BLFC button is designed to set the BW rate, your well pump and piping could limit the flow rate to the iron filter. If they are not limiting flow, removal of the BLFC button could cause the media to be lifted too high so as to cause some of the media to be backwashed out to drain.

The recommended BW rate for KL is 10-15 GPM/ft2. For a 9" diameter tank, that calculates as 4.4 - 6.6 GPM @ 60°F water temperature. If your well water is 50°F - 59°F, the BLFC rate should be reduced to only 90% and to only 75% for water that is 40°F - 49°F.
 

2004blackwrx

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I have a drian flow control button labbeled 053. Water temp was 55 degrees. I would imagine this stays fairly consistent throughout the year. Just ran the drain outside again for a test. Yesterday i used the original black half inch hose and got 5 gpm. Today i did a test with a 3/4 inch hose and I got about 5 gpm. I noticed the flow for the first 5 mins of back wash today was orange so thats a good thing. I just last backwashed 24 hours prior but drain is normally flowing into house hold plumbing so i can t see the color very easily. Yesterday I was unable to also observe color during test because I was chasing the hose down. Currently system backwashes for 10 mins then air draws for 40. At end of air draw cycle some water still flows out of drain line.

Further explanation of my drain line. My current drain line was set up by culligan for previous system using 1/2 inch line with a T where the water softner entered the drain. The drain goes up about 4 feet the travels 26 ft before entering household plumbing. I read in my new softner manual with the fleck valve if drain line runs more then 20 feet use 3/4 inch drain so thats my current plan. Also I was gonna T the two drains together again. I always thought it was strange and thought two units should have seperate drain but culligan said its fine as long as the iron system is on staright part of the t. Just want to verify this drain setup is good before I continue. Also there is a air gap before it enters plumbing.
 

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. At end of air draw cycle some water still flows out of drain line.
thats not good. is this constant? that is, does it just keep draining? or is it just some residual drain water siphoning out your 26ft drain line that stops in a couple mins?

before you do too much more messing with it you should take a few measurements with your new iron test kit and then get the water company back to fix the problem they sold you. be ready to test for iron in their presence. ask them to bring a 7.5gpm drain button.

I do think your 5.3gpm backwash is not sufficient. but i don't get the feeling going to 7.5 is going to solve this for you, but its the next thing to try.
 

Reach4

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It's a 9 inch tank, so 6 or 7 gpm may be appropriate for KL.
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Bannerman

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At end of air draw cycle some water still flows out of drain line.
Assuming you are referring to water flowing from the drain while still in the draw cycle, it's totally normal for water to flow to drain for the entire draw cycle.

The draw rate is determined by which injector is installed. The injector acts as a venturi so the flow of water passing through the main throat of the injector, will create a vacuum on the injector's side port.

On a softener, the side port is utilized to draw in the brine from the brine tank. For an AIO system, air will be drawn in through the side port for as long as water is passing through the injector.

If you are referring to water continuing to flow to drain after the draw cycle has concluded, perhaps your controller is programmed to advance to Rapid Rinse directly following the draw cycle?
 
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