Keep water line from lake from freezing/

[Ron Cyr Sr]

I'm a newbie so be patient.....We live on a lake year round and get our water from the lake. When we put the water line in in 1979 we waited until the lake was quite low. The guy digging the water line in took his backhoe out into the lake as far as he could go. At some point the water line comes from underground and runs along the lake bottom. This year we have a severe drought and I am getting concerned the we won't get enough rain to bring the lake up to where I feel safe that the water line running on the bottom will not freeze. I looked into putting foam insulation from the foot valve back to where it enters the ground. I was told at a plumbing supply place all this would do was keep the water in the line colder and make it freeze faster. Any ideas.....

 

[Valveman]

If the line is not deep enough to get any heat from the ground, they maybe right. You can use a heat trace that actually fits inside the pipe.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[PumpMd]

How deep is your frost line in Maine? How deep is the line under water now? How deep has it been frozen in the lake in the past years? Since you put it in during a drought for the water to be low, maybe you should've buried the line for the next time it happens in the future.

I was thinking about heat tape, is that something similar to your heat trace valveman but longer life? How do you get to put it in the pipe?

 

[ThirdGenPump]

How deep is your frost line in Maine? How deep is the line under water now? How deep has it been frozen in the lake in the past years? Since you put it in during a drought for the water to be low, maybe you should've buried the line for the next time it happens in the future.

I was thinking about heat tape, is that something similar to your heat trace valveman but longer life? How do you get to put it in the pipe?

There are heat tape systems designed to go inside pipes. the tapes themselves have the rigidity of a fish-tape so you just push them down the line. They have a fitting designed to hold pressure so in place of an elbow in the house you put a tee in and feed the heat tape through it. I haven't used them personally just watched a salesmen presentation a while ago.

I don't advocate such methods as depending on electricity to protect your pipes means you're just one power outage away from having no water the rest of the winter.

If you're living in a lake house year round it's time to consider putting in a real well, feeding from a pond camp level living.

 

[Craigpump]

I installed a few of those years ago. True they push out through the pipe, but when you have over 50' or so of run, the cable gets heavy and doesn't push so you have to pull it through which can be a pain in the _ _ _. They are also expensive to purchase and run. You're better off with a deeper trench.

 

[PumpMd]

I think it's a good idea still because he could be out of the drought quickly and go another 37yrs before another drought comes along or you could just drill a well like ThirdGenPump suggested.

I found this video

 

[Reach4]

I looked into putting foam insulation from the foot valve back to where it enters the ground. I was told at a plumbing supply place all this would do was keep the water in the line colder and make it freeze faster.

I can't see that happening. If the insulation was around the pipe, freezing would be slowed but would still happen unless you have water flow. If the insulation was above the pipe and the area around the pipe, it would allow some heat to come up from below. I am not saying this is worth doing. I am just not seeing the "freeze faster" bit.

Here is a different idea that is untried... just thinking: use water at a rate that the warmer water at the intake comes through the shallow area more often. If you used a CSV with a 4 gallon tank, you would get about a 1 GPM drawdown. If you opened a faucet at 2 gpm, the water would run continuously. If you opened a faucet at 0.1 GPM, the pump would turn on for a couple minutes every 10 minutes. If 0.05 GPM, the pump would turn on every 20 minutes. 0.02 GPM would bring up the pump every half hour. This would bring up relatively warm water, and it would move any formed slush into the warmer pipe that is below the frost line.

This could be used with a bigger pressure tank if you had a specially bad cold snap. But it would take a lot of water being drawn to get the pump to run every 20 minutes unless you did something special to the pressure switch.

The good news is that poly water pipe will usually survive a freeze, but will get the water blocked.

 

[LakeResident]

We have a lake water system that draws water through a 1 1/4" line that has a Pyrotenax 240V internal heating cable (550Watt, 160ft long)

When we go away for a couple of months, I drain the system so water level in pipe is same as lake level. Line runs on lake bottom. Lake does freeze - sometimes 3ft deep (we are in Canada)

In past, I have left the line heater on, with no noticeable problems. But realize now that the heating cable is running through about 20ft of empty pipe before it becomes submerged in water. Not sure if Pyrotenax cable we have should be used that way (Can't find company to ask)

Question is: Would it be better to turn in-line heater off and let the line freeze OR have heating cable turned on?