Is this setup acceptable and safe...

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by WX4SNO, Mar 31, 2019.

  1. WX4SNO

    WX4SNO New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2019
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    Hydrometeorologist
    Location:
    Snowville, VA
    Hello all!

    New to the forum but have been reading several posts about check valves and where they are and are not acceptable to be placed. I have been dealing with murky water since we built our house back in 2012. The water is not only murky, at times it is down-right brick red in color, but usually only this bad when I have to turn off the power to the deep well pump and drain the lines for a repair or addition. We currently don't have any filtration on our water so I've decided to do something about that. Here is what I have come up with.

    [​IMG]

    Our submersible well pump is at ~420 feet deep and as far as I know the only check valve on it is within the pump. We have a new garage where I have a second 44-gal bladder tank that doesn't have a pressure switch attached; this is for additional storage to help keep the pump from kicking on so often. I will be putting our washer and dryer in the garage, along with a sink. Anyhow, back to filters. Since the water pressure can flow both to and from the main bladder tank to the garage tank and everywhere in between, I thought I might need to put a check valve on the spin-down and water filter branch line to prevent back-washing the filter every time water needs to flow to the garage end. This allows the water to flow through the filter the right way, then a second branch with another check valve will allow water to by-pass the filter and proceed to the garage. A third branch at the bottom is a simple by-pass shut-off valve to allow for maintenance on the other two lines and will be closed most of the time. The filters and check valves will be placed indoors in the basement next to the pressure tank and before the regulator and regulator shut-off valve. Once I get the washer and sink installed in the garage, I will likely add this same setup with filters and check valves right before the water goes into the storage tank out there.

    Is this an acceptable setup and safe to operate? What is the best check valve I can get for this setup? It would need to be one-size up from my line which is a 1-inch poly main, so I'l like a 1-1/4 inch valve. Are there some online I can order for delivery that you all would highly recommend??

    I appreciate the help folks!
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Pressure switch needs to be at the pressure tank. There should be no shutoff valve between the pump and the pressure switch. Normally you don't want any cartridge filter between the pump or and the pressure switch, but there could be exceptions.

    Maybe put the pressure switch in your non-freezing garage, and feed the existing tank through a check valve?
     
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  4. WX4SNO

    WX4SNO New Member

    Joined:
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    Hydrometeorologist
    Location:
    Snowville, VA
    That makes sense now that I think about it...to not have anything between the pump and regulator to avoid over-pressurizing and burning up the pump. My pressure switch is mounted to the main pressure tank with a brass tee, relief, and pressure gauge. So is it okay to allow some sediment into the pressure tank since the regulator is mounted to the tank brass tee and on the other side would be where I would tap in and put the filters before they go to the hot-water heater and the rest of the house. I could also do away with the upper branch line and just have the filters and check valve, along with the by-pass for maintenance. With this setup, water can flow to either the house or the garage to fill both the tanks, with the main pressure tank with the regulator inside the house. The check vale will stop any water flowing back through the filters to avoid back-wash. Here is the re-worked schematic...would the be okay??

    [​IMG]

    Having the pressure switch in the garage is not possible as it is a detached garage and 30-ft from the house.
     
  5. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

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    Semi-Retired
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Don't use a check valve. It creates a closed system and the water heater will require an expansion tank.
     
  6. WX4SNO

    WX4SNO New Member

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    Snowville, VA
    So without the check valve, I shouldn't have any back-wash problems when I use the washing machine in the garage? I won't have water flowing from the water heater back through the filters when the pressure drops?
     
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    If you used a third valve, for the filters instead of a check valve, then you would not need to add a thermal expansion tank for the WH.

    I don't know if the two separated pressure tanks will set up an odd behavior.
     
  8. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Pump Controls Technician
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    Lubbock, Texas
    And why do you have two pressure tanks anyway? And what it the pressure regulator for?
     
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    He was using that to describe the pressure switch.
     
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  10. WX4SNO

    WX4SNO New Member

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    Hydrometeorologist
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    Snowville, VA
    Yes, pressure regulator=pressure switch. Only one of those tanks has a pressure switch...the one in the house. The other tank will simply be hooked up to provide extra storage capacity since I am limited on space where the main tank is in the house. They both will have the same charge of PSI so I'm hoping there will be no problems.
     
  11. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Without a CSV friction loss will cause the first tank to fill first, then is will drain to the second tank. So if the pressure switch is on the second tank, when the pump shuts off, the first tank will still bleed into the second tank and the pressure will increase a bit from the shut off point. In other words with a 40/60 switch, the pressure will probably increase above 60 before the tanks equalize.

    Pressure tanks DO NOT PROVIDE STORAGE. With a 40/60 switch hey can be at 41 PSI when the power goes off so they are not good for storing water. Your water is stored in the well and all the pressure tank is for is to keep the pump from cycling on/off too much. When you have a Cycle Stop Valve to do that for you, a small pressure tank is all that is needed.
     
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    If he feeds the garage pressure tank with a check valve he minimizes the interaction and has some storage for the garage, right?
     
  13. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    That check valve would cause more friction loss, making the two tanks fill at different rates and times. Even with a check valve you have no way of making sure that tank has any water stored for times when the power is off.
     
  14. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    If you have not used the garage water since the power went off, I think you could rely on having some water stored there. That water could be stale, however. That garage tank would not contribute water to the house, and therefore would not contribute drawdown capacity either.

    The garage tank with a check valve would only fill while being used and when the pump turned on the next time.

    Two closely coupled tanks in the garage, with the pressure switch there and no check valve, would each contribute to the drawdown. Or get one big one in the garage and disconnect the inside pressure tank.
     
  15. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Or just realize pressure tanks are not a good way to "store" water, and get a water storage tank or a generator.
     
  16. WX4SNO

    WX4SNO New Member

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    Snowville, VA
    So you're saying the second tank will not provide additional volume to the system and reduce the pump cycling on/off?
     
  17. Midriller

    Midriller Member

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    Well Driller #39-2603
    Location:
    Galesburg, Mi
    It will create longer cycles but the risks of water hammer is far greater than the reward, i would suggest installing one larger tank next to the pressure switch and a CSV in the well head if your still concerned. Manifolding tanks is a science and we generally run a 2" manifold with equalized piping from switch to each tank (>10% difference in friction loss, tanks need to be same size/brand/model) and even at that if one tank loses air the system will essentially fight itself and cause hammering. the only check valves needed in a conventional system are in the well head (exceptions for iron curtains, or non potable connections) It is never a good idea to install an active pressure tank away from your switch.
     
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