Is my Softener drawing Brine right?

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Asker123

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2.5 cubic feet of softener with Fleck 5810SXT newly installed today.
The company gave procedure - Add 1/2 bag of salt ( no mentioned what size bag) and 3 gallons of water, wait for 1 hour and then force regeneration. When we added our usual bag's half with 3 gallons of water, the water was above the salt.
We are not sure whether during 60 minutes of Brine Draw , how much of that 3 gallons of Brine should be gone into the softener. We did not feel any low level of Brine in the tank. Visually it was not going down. The output line of softener into my sump pit had constant air bubbles when the Brine Draw cycle was going on and I tasted a bit ( sorry if I shouldn't be doing that). The Brine in the tank is extremely salty and the softener exit water was hardly any salty.
With this observation and the fact that we did not see Brine level going down, is there a reason to think Brine is not getting drawn.
Now at the end of everything, the valve has added lots of water in the brine tank. I would say approx 10 gallons or so. Procedure told to put a setting of 20 for 2.5 cubic feet for Brine refill. Now the 1/2 bag salt is just sitting at the bottom.
How do I ensure on a new softener if Brine Draw is working as it should.
How much Salt to add in the Tank now?
 

Reach4

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1. There will be some amount of brine that will stay in the brine tank. Three gallons seems to little, because the water should come up a few inches, to the middle of the air check valve PLUS the water that a regen will take, and that will be more like 5 to 7 gallons. So your initial water fill should have been maybe 10 gallons.

For a 20 minute BF cycle, if you have a 0.25 GPM BLFC, that is an economical salt setting of 6 lbs/cuft. In those 20 minutes, 5 gallons will be injected. That would cause you to dissolve 15 lbs of salt.

Presumably your first regen added 5 gallons of water. I don't know how far up/down the 3 gallons left it. So you could regen again now, or add a couple gallons, wait an hour, and regen again.

When you pour water in after the salt is in, pour it down the brine tube (lift the cap).

Some salt should always be higher than the water level. Go ahead and pour the rest of your 18 or 20 kg bag if you want.

2.5 cuft of resin is not so common. A 52x12 inch tank usually has 2 cuft of resin.
 

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Hello, Thank you for your advise. Seems like initially added water was on low side so it was sucking air. However at the end of that regeneration, the valve filled the brine tank with more water. I ran a second regeneration and noticed that this time the flow was smooth and there were less bubbles visible in the outflow to the sump pit during Brine Draw. At this time I stopped the Brine draw and skipped the cycle to Rapid Rinse and then another 20 minutes of Brine Fill. Now I have approx 9.5 inches of water in my Brine Tank. My brine Tank is cylindrical 3 feet 3 inches in height and 1.5 feet in diameter. I have Salt 5 inches lower than Water.
How much Salt do I need to add now? I heard that too much Salt can create Salt Bridge (Lumps).
My Softener is 2.5 cubic feet. It is 52X13
Here are my settings of my Fleck 5810SXT valve

DF = GAL
VT= 5810
RF = df2b
CT = FD
NT = 1
C = this is in thousands. I entered 50 for 2.5 cubic feet softener
H = 57 grains per gallon
RS = SF
SF = 5
DO = 10
RT = 12.00 PM
B1 = 10
BD = 60
B2 = 5
RR = 10
BF = 20
FM = t1.2
RE = OFF
VR = OFF
 

Reach4

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Confirm the BLFC and injector numbers.

RT = 12.00 PM is unusual, but maybe that fits your schedule best.

57 grains of hardness is quite a bit. How was that determined?

Don't worry about the salt bridge. Salt level should always have some salt above the water. Else there can be stratification where the upper water does not get saturated with salt. You can tilt the salt fill to make the salt at one edge or corner be above water. That is enough to avoid stratification.

Stratification is real. Note that the liquid level in the brine tube is higher than the liquid level in the rest of the tank.
 
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Asker123

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There is a sticker that says 0.25 GPM and 0.75 LB of Salt
Injector no is 1
Valve is 5810SXT
My hardness was tested by a reputed lab it is 987.14 mg/L . I divided by 17.1 to arrive at 57.7 grains per gallon
My Iron is 0.12 mg/L or PPM
Softener is 2.5 Cubic feet

Brine tank size is 1.5 feet diameter and 3 feet 3 inch tall

What settings you guys recommend?
 

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This assumes no iron. If iron, increase H by 5 for each ppm of iron.

System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft : 7.5 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC : 0.25 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin : 2.5 ; Same as (nominal grains/32,000)
Raw hardness : 57.7 ; including iron etc
Estimated gal/day ; 120 ; 60 gal per person prediction (auto-tunes)
Est days/regen ; 6.49 ; presuming days each use estimated

Fleck 5810SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = 5810 ; Valve type
RF = dF2b ; Downflow, Double Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
C = 58 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 74 ; Hardness grains after comp factor
RS = cr ; Cr = base reserve on recent experience
DO = 30 ; Day Override (typ 30 if no iron/Mn)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
B1 = 5 ; Backwash 1 (minutes) [3...10]
Bd = 75 ; Brine draw minutes
B2 = 4 ; Backwash 2 (minutes)[3...10]
RR = 6 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 25 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = t1.2 (usual) ; t1.2 is default flow meter
RE = OFF ; Relay
VR = OFF ; ?

====================================
The less salt per cubic ft, the more salt efficient, but more hardness breakthrough.
Revised based on number from https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/help-for-programming-fleck-5810.82673/#post-595983
BLFC = 0.25
cubic ft resin = 2.5

Alternative C and BF pairs:
lb/cuft ; C= ; BF=
5.100 ; 48.3 ; 17
5.400 ; 49.8 ; 18
5.700 ; 51.2 ; 19
6.000 ; 52.5 ; 20 #BF you have now.
6.300 ; 53.8 ; 21
6.600 ; 55.0 ; 22
6.900 ; 56.2 ; 23
7.200 ; 57.3 ; 24
7.500 ; 58.3 ; 25 #selcted above.
7.800 ; 59.3 ; 26
8.100 ; 60.3 ; 27
8.400 ; 61.2 ; 28
8.700 ; 62.0 ; 29
9.000 ; 62.9 ; 30

Note: High-hardness comp factor discussed on
terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fleck-9100-sxt-programming-settings.60651/
 
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Asker123

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Wow so I was thinking my water is already Hard 57 grains per gallon, you suggesting I bump up to 74 in the configuration
What about the water in the tank already.
As per new configuration I would use brine = 0.25*25=6.25 gallons and 3 lbs salt per gallon so 6.25*3=18.75 lb salt per generation

I think I currently have this much water in Brine tank . Explaining in steps

1) New Brine tank , I started with 3 Gallons. As I mentioned in my original post, I saw lots of bubbles in 60 minutes BD. Hardly noticed any Brine Draw. So I would assume it was 3 Gallons at the end of Cycle
2) BF added 5 Gallons. THis ia a fact , I saw the level going up . So we are 3+5 gallons = 8 gallon
3) To confirm whether the low initial water level was the issue, I regenerated again. This time at the beginning of BD, there were no bubbles in the exit so I would say Brine was getting sucked. but after few minutes it again started pulling bubbles. So I skipped the BD ad again did BF which added another 5 gallons so now we are 8 -2 ( approx BD in the begging) +5 = 11 Gallon.

Do you think with new setting you recommended, I will be good with approx 11 gallons in Brine Tank

How does Brine Draw rate work? is it also 0.25 gpm just like Brine Fill ? How much Brine is Drawn ? whats the calc in our example? If there is more Brine in the Tank, can this cause issue?
 

Reach4

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1. To move your setting from 20 minutes to 25 minute setting, add an extra 1.25 gallons down the brine well. One time only. Bubbles during brine draw, except for the very first, would indicate a bad check valve or a vacuum leak.
2. You did a regen. So during that, you sucked down to the middle of the check valve. Let's assume the bubbles were a one-time thing. You injected 20 minutes (5 gallons) on top of that. Never again do you have to worry about how much liquid is below the middle of the check valve. It is what it is, so that is your new base.

Now you can start worrying about how you are going to buy and load all of that salt.

Also, your water has gotten more expensive (but worth it). Examine your water use. Do flush, even on yellow. But hand washing and showers can use a lower-water technique. A bath may use less water than a long shower.

Don't water the plants with softened water.
 
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