Installing a new flange

[jimithing78]

I recently removed a 30 year old toilet and with it came the flange that was supposed to be bolted to the ground. I guess it rusted to the point of not being physically held down by anything. So that left me with this hole in the ground:

It's a 4 in pipe installed in a slab foundation. I'm redoing this floor at the same time with porcelain tile. I think I've read that the tile goes down first and then I install the flange. Is that right?

So how do I install a flange? The local Home Depot carries plastic and cast iron. Are those the only two options? The guy at Home Depot showed me one that had some sort of tapered flange that you put into the drain and rotate until a gasket forms a good seal with the pipe. I couldn't find a picture of it on the HD website, but hopefully that makes sense. Is this the best way? As you can see from the pictures, the concrete around the pipe is broken up a little bit. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

To me that looks like a lead bend in the floor. Nothing will easily adapt to that setup. If the concrete is in bad shape, that's another reason to get away from the setup.


I'd jackhammer that floor up, take it back to the hub and rework it in PVC,

Set the piping up where you can use a 4" flush-fit flange by just running the pipe long.....run the tile up to the pipe, then cut the pipe off flush with the floor and glue the flange in.

Pilot drill the holes for flange to anchor down so it's a solid setup.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Cass]

Ditto what RUGGED said.

Rugged, I will sit and eat a grilled cheese sandwich and some tomato soup while I watch you do it...and don't forget to get your Hep shot first.

 

[hj]

flange

That lead bend is so misshapen that nothing is going to go into it and seal. If your are lucky, a plumber MIGHT be able to solder a new brass flange to it, but even this is iffy given the amount of lead he would have to work with. Otherwise, breaking the floor and installing a new bend, and cast iron might really be the easiest in this case, may be the best solution.

 

[Leejosepho]

I think I've read that the tile goes down first and then I install the flange. Is that right?

Yes.

The guy at Home Depot showed me one that had some sort of tapered flange that you put into the drain and rotate until a gasket forms a good seal with the pipe ...

What the others here have already said would be best, yet I believe there is an alternative. I do not know about the HD item you have mentioned, but I would suspect it would need to go into a reasonably smooth and symetrical pipe in order to seal.

Just like the horn on the bottom of the toilet turns down into a flange and is fastened, so could a flange be sealed into a hole in the floor and fastened. If you can afford to have a real plumber come in and do what the real plumbers here have suggested, then do so. But if not, you might be able to work an alternative through.

 

[jimithing78]

If you can afford to have a real plumber come in and do what the real plumbers here have suggested, then do so.

Can you guys give me a ball park of what it would cost a plumber to do this? I'm sure it varies by region, but really just a ball park. We're already running over budget here.

But if not, you might be able to work an alternative through.

What would the alternative be?

 

[Frenchie]

Well... ahem... neither is really kosher... but... I can think of two approaches:

https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15854

https://terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15545


(flame suit on)

 

[jimithing78]

Thanks for the links Frenchie. The deep flange pictured in one of those threads was the same kind I saw at home depot. I copied it here so you guys could see without opening those other threads. So if I were to go with that method, should I use a PVC or cast iron flange? I know I can straighten up the lead pipe to fit the extended flange inside.

 

[Leejosepho]

What would the alternative be?

Depending upon the sizes involved, either that deep flange or something similar ultimately fastened to the floor and sealed with a proper hydraulic cement filling the space between it and the pipe.

I would first smooth (lightly hammer) out the inside of that pipe as much as possible, if possible, then fit a solid styrofoam plug inside and an inch or so below the eventual reach of the nipple of the deep flange. That plug would have to be somehow supported from below so it cannot be pushed farther down into the pipe.

I would then tape something like a flexible plastic disk (such as from the top of a coffee can) over the bottom of the nipple on the flange to temporarily cap it off. Both that disk and the plug in the pipe will later be removed by cutting, breaking, folding or whatever and pulling them up through the flange.

At that point, I would mix some hydraulic cement and pour it in the hole, then press the flange down into place and rotational position tight to the floor with cement oozing out ... then later drill the necessary holes for adding studs into floor for holding the toilet in place.

Be advised: Hydraulic cement sets quickly!

 

[Redwood]

I'd get the lead out anything else is just...

But if you want you can wait until after the new floor is in and have funky water leaking across the floor and your new bathroom reeking of fart gas. Then you can patch the floor after doing it right!

 

[Herk]

I would encourage anyone to get rid of the lead bend. Lead does not last forever. It cracks and wears and has thin spots - particularly since the method for bending closet bends was to fill the lead pipe with sand and heat it over charcoal. It was a poor material for the job when it was installed. And this particular bend doesn't look at all well-made.

 

[Redwood]

Kinda like a good used demo derby car!

 

[Leejosepho]

I would encourage anyone to get rid of the lead bend. Lead does not last forever. It cracks and wears and has thin spots ...

Well then, my idea is a bad one!

 

[Gary Swart]

I realize you're over budget, but is this where you want to go cheap? I can't thing of anything I would want to be absolutely done right that my toilet drain. I can assure you that a cost to rip up the new floor and break out the concrete later will cost much more than doing it right now. Most of what needs to be done is labor and if you're doing it yourself, that isn't going to impact the budget that much. Do it right the first time and save time and money in the long run.

 

[jimithing78]

Ok, I'm going to have a licensed plumber come out and have a look at it. Breaking the slab is not something I want to do myself.

So this lead pipe leads to what? A non-lead drain pipe for the house? will the concrete breaking be limited to the bathroom? ballpark cost anyone?

thanks for the advice. not what i wanted to hear, but you guys are right, i'd rather do it right and not have to worry about it in the future.

 

[Dunbar Plumbing]

Most if not all times the lead is limited to a foot, 2 foot tops.

It's then connected to a cast-iron hub by way of a brass ferrule, leaded over to make a water tight connection.

Working out of the hub by service weight gasket or going behind that hub and going pipe to pipe by means of a fernco rubber coupling will suit the repair fine.

Don't know your area so it's hard to decipher/comprise the costs incurred to do such a task. Get 3 estimates to get ballpark.

My charges would be starting at $500 and going up.