Information Overload - Ozone, Chlorine, etc?

Users who are viewing this thread

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
33,118
Reaction score
3,249
Points
113
Location
IL
I do intend to sanitize my well casing and plumping very soon; however, I do still need to ensure that my family and I have a constant supply of disinfected / safe water even if the IRB is eliminated by shocking / sanitizing once a year or so.
IRB and SRB are not harmful to humans. Yogurt bacteria are not harmful to humans.
 

Dice

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Florida, USA
IRB and SRB are not harmful to humans. Yogurt bacteria are not harmful to humans.

You're absolutely right. I am not concerned about it from a health standpoint, but rather from the standpoint of keeping all of the water filtering components clean and working the best they can. Wouldn't the IRB plug up control heads, check valves, medias, etc throughout the system? That's the only thing I'm worried about. I don't want to spend a decent chunk of money on this equipment and then have it all be fouled up by something that I could have prevented. I understand regular maintenance needs to be done regardless, but I always though that IRB can make its way through the whole system and gum up every component unless you eliminate it with chlorine, peroxide, ozone, etc?
 
Last edited:

water pro

Active Member
Messages
365
Reaction score
33
Points
28
Location
syracuse
Wow, thank you for all of the input, it definitely helps! Our water smells very strongly of iron, and there are is almost no colour nor any iron solids when it comes out of the tap. Only after it sits for a while do red/orange deposits form.

Because of the chlorination and contact tank the iron should be ferric by the time it gets to the spin-down filter right? The way that I understand it is that ferric iron is a solid particle that then needs physical filtration down to a certain micron size (although I do not know what micron size that is), not chemical / oxidation - is that correct? If that's the case then the air injection katalox the water guy suggested seems entirely redundant.

Is there a better / different way to filter the post chlorination iron that you have had success with? I also have sand / other sediment that gets into the house from time to time that I was hoping the katalox would catch, but if katalox is out of the equation then I'm not sure what other media could be used in conjunction with GAC to get the fine particles?
by iron smell, do you mean sulfur smell, or metallic smell? By your description it appears to be mostly ferrous. ya. chlorine kills irb/srb and even coliform, but it requires 35 minutes of contact time (hence the large retention tank), GAC then removes the Residual CL. no filter or air injection is needed. you will blow it down periodically. 5 mic is way too small for a sediment filter, as it will greatly reduce flow.
 

Dice

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Florida, USA
by iron smell, do you mean sulfur smell, or metallic smell? By your description it appears to be mostly ferrous. ya. chlorine kills irb/srb and even coliform, but it requires 35 minutes of contact time (hence the large retention tank), GAC then removes the Residual CL. no filter or air injection is needed. you will blow it down periodically. 5 mic is way too small for a sediment filter, as it will greatly reduce flow.

Yes, a metallic smell - definitely not sulphur. Thankfully I don't have to open that can of worms!
So you're saying that as long as I regularly blow down the contact tank, and after it I would opt for a backwashing carbon tank, that an additional katalox tank would be unnecessary? If so then that was what I was initially thinking as well, but I have had a couple different water salesmen around here suggest the same exact air injection multimedia katalox tank so I began second guessing myself.

What micron size do you think I could get away with? The idea was to filter out the larger sand and other small particles that come through the water lines occasionally.
 

water pro

Active Member
Messages
365
Reaction score
33
Points
28
Location
syracuse
Yes, a metallic smell - definitely not sulphur. Thankfully I don't have to open that can of worms!
So you're saying that as long as I regularly blow down the contact tank, and after it I would opt for a backwashing carbon tank, that an additional katalox tank would be unnecessary? If so then that was what I was initially thinking as well, but I have had a couple different water salesmen around here suggest the same exact air injection multimedia katalox tank so I began second guessing myself.

What micron size do you think I could get away with? The idea was to filter out the larger sand and other small particles that come through the water lines occasionally.
not sure I saw you mention sediment. as reach4 stated, a 20 mic will suffice. are they all recommending the same brand? They may know something about the local supply I don't. air injection + injection/retention/adsorbtion is redundancy
 
Last edited:

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
33,118
Reaction score
3,249
Points
113
Location
IL
no need to go that small., even with ferric, 20 mic poly will work
I have been running 1 micron. Next change I will switch back to 5. Pressure drop is not bad.

I figure that my backwashing filter catches most of the stuff. My backwashing filter is my first line -- no spin-down or wye. That's not what I am recommending-- it's what I did.

My filters are before my softener. After the softener has the advantage of catching any broken resin.
 

Dice

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Florida, USA
not sure I saw you mention sediment. as reach4 stated, a 20 mic will suffice. are they all recommending the same brand? They may know something about the local supply I don't. air injection + injection/retention/adsorbtion is redundancy

Thank you very much for your input. Makes me feel a little less crazy throughout this whole process. I'd assume that they probably all have the same supplier so maybe more of a coincidence due to my type of water, and what tends to sell best with least amount of call backs, than anything else.

Could I ask you one more question? A third water company suggested that I did not need chlorine injection to kill the iron bacteria before the water goes to other filters - that I could just use an AIO Katalox w/ softener after and that I would not have any problems with the bacteria growing in the system / fouling the system. Everything I've read elsewhere has stated the opposite, and he couldn't really explain why it wasn't a problem, just that "it works". Do you have experience with this or opinions on this?
 

water pro

Active Member
Messages
365
Reaction score
33
Points
28
Location
syracuse
Thank you very much for your input. Makes me feel a little less crazy throughout this whole process. I'd assume that they probably all have the same supplier so maybe more of a coincidence due to my type of water, and what tends to sell best with least amount of call backs, than anything else.

Could I ask you one more question? A third water company suggested that I did not need chlorine injection to kill the iron bacteria before the water goes to other filters - that I could just use an AIO Katalox w/ softener after and that I would not have any problems with the bacteria growing in the system / fouling the system. Everything I've read elsewhere has stated the opposite, and he couldn't really explain why it wasn't a problem, just that "it works". Do you have experience with this or opinions on this?
aio can sometimes promote bacterial growth, the opposite though (IOB and SOB). AIO3 is a better alternative if going that route. injection, or 03 + physical filtration are your best options depending on your requirements. low maintenance, cost, ease of use, space requirements and many other factors
 

Dice

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Florida, USA
aio can sometimes promote bacterial growth, the opposite though (IOB and SOB). AIO3 is a better alternative if going that route. injection, or 03 + physical filtration are your best options depending on your requirements. low maintenance, cost, ease of use, space requirements and many other factors

Very interesting - I didn't know that IRB was anaerobic. Makes sense then that O2 or O3 might work to eliminate it. My concern there would be is there enough oxygen or ozone to kill the IRB. Maybe chlorination is the safer bet?
 

water pro

Active Member
Messages
365
Reaction score
33
Points
28
Location
syracuse
Very interesting - I didn't know that IRB was anaerobic. Makes sense then that O2 or O3 might work to eliminate it. My concern there would be is there enough oxygen or ozone to kill the IRB. Maybe chlorination is the safer bet?
there will be plenty of O3, that's not a concern. without getting into specifics, at 4 ppm and higher CL or H2O2 injection would be the preferred method imo.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,060
Reaction score
527
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
O2 can cause IRB to multiply whereas O3 or chlorine will kill it. While H2O2 is effective at oxidizing ferrous iron, it is not as reliable at killing bacteria compared to chlorine/O3 unless a larger quantity is used.
 

Dice

New Member
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Florida, USA
O2 can cause IRB to multiply whereas O3 or chlorine will kill it. While H2O2 is effective at oxidizing ferrous iron, it is not as reliable at killing bacteria compared to chlorine/O3 unless a larger quantity is used.

Got it. Thank you for your input. With your and everyone elses help I finally feel confident enough to make a water treatment decision. Thank you!
 

Jessesun

CE Environment Technology Co., Ltd
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
610-2 Room, Pingxiang, China
Website
www.ceenvironment.com
Friends, if you can provide the following information, I can help you design an ozone system to treat your water

1. Your current water treatment process (we have to consider where to add ozone)
2. The amount of water per hour or day (we need to calculate the amount of ozone)
3. Your water quality report (iron and manganese content, mg/L, the amount of ozone should also be calculated based on their content)

Give you a formula Y=BxV/(1-61%)x75%
Y is the hourly output of the ozone machine or the hourly output of the ozone system
B is the ozone concentration, the concentration calculated according to your water quality
V is your water volume
61% is the decay rate of ozone in one hour of ozone in water, turning into oxygen
75% is the average working efficiency of the ozone machine

When Y>1 kg/hr, CE Environment Technology Co., Ltd. will have an ozone-water mixing system to ensure the effect of sterilization and removal of iron and manganese. The ozone system is more complicated and usually includes air compressors, freeze dryers, filters, adsorption dryers, and oxygen machines. , Ozone machine, gas storage tank, mixing chamber, ozone space alarm, space detector, ozone water detector, etc.
 

Attachments

  • system connection.jpg
    system connection.jpg
    43 KB · Views: 17
  • Mixing tank.jpg
    Mixing tank.jpg
    43 KB · Views: 20

ditttohead

Water systems designer, R&D
Messages
5,952
Reaction score
419
Points
83
Location
Ontario California
AIO and iron bacteria can be a nasty combo. AIO3 only sanitizes the top portion of the tank which is where the majority of the problems occur. This is very common with iron bacteria and AIO...

irb.jpg
 

Charlie Bosco

Member
Messages
155
Reaction score
17
Points
18
Location
Florida
I know I am over thinking all of this so thank you all for sticking with me.

The suggestion of Katalox threw me off because I thought that carbon could effectively remove ferric iron, although I don't know if regular GAC or catalytic is more effective at doing this. Is this incorrect?

UPDATE:

I've just had another company get back to me and suggest an air injection katalox filter with a softener following it. They said that I would not need the chlorine injection system even though I have bacterial iron because katalox is effective at dealing with bacterial iron.
I've been shying away from air injection units because I thought that the air increases bacterial iron issues..?! Help :(

I am in S. Florida and these guys here helped me get my well water spot on. I realize you are fighting a different battle but I do believe the same weapon is needed.

I had no iron but it smelled like someone took a dump in your house. LOL Its been perfect for over a year now. No real maintenance. The Avatar photo is what I have..

I removed ALL cartridge filters. the one in the photo is empty. I only use it to introduce the occasional Chlorine tablet backwash.
So start with a Katalox Air injection tank. KAtalox filters down to about 3 microns so any additional filtration is unnecessary. In my photo there is a Spindown filter from my old setup. That is a 50 Micron so the Katalox is handling everything perfectly. The flow is insane without cartridge filters. The Katalox scrubs about 95% of the Sulfur smell. I then go to a backwashing Catalytic Carbon Filter. From there I go to a water softener and to the house.. As I said.. basically maintenance free..

I like to occasionally hit the Katalox tank with Chlorine or Peroxide every few months. This is not because I have any breakthrough smell. Simply to keep the Carbon Tank from any heavy lifting..

I do however plan to redo the system soon. I want to replace the AIO on the Katalox to an OZONE AIO. That should keep the Katalox perfect without having to sanitize it occasionally. Dittohead has all the stuff to do it. :)
 
Last edited:
Top