Help installing water softener

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ayau

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I'm replacing an old water softener with a Whirlpool model. When removing the old bypass valve, the copper nut seems to be on there pretty tight. I have a 18'' pipe wrench, but it doesn't seem to want to budge. How do I go about in removing the old bypass valve? See pic below.

bQj8wKw.jpg
 

Bannerman

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If what you mean by 'copper nut' is one of the two threaded fittings which are screwed into the backside of the bypass valve, those fittings are soldered firmly to the copper pipes. The fittings cannot be unscrewed from the bypass valve until the fittings are either un-soldered from both pipes or the pipes between those fittings and the elbows behind are first cut apart.

It is recommended to hire a plumber to perform the installation as soldering can be tricky for anyone inexperienced.

That's all I will say.
 

ayau

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If what you mean by 'copper nut' is one of the two threaded fittings which are screwed into the backside of the bypass valve, those fittings are soldered firmly to the copper pipes. The fittings cannot be unscrewed from the bypass valve until the fittings are either un-soldered from both pipes or the pipes between those fittings and the elbows behind are first cut apart.

It is recommended to hire a plumber to perform the installation as soldering can be tricky for anyone inexperienced.

That's all I will say.

That's what I was worried about. Is there some kind of adapter to connect the old bypass valve into the Whirlpool softener? Is desoldering the "best" way to approach this?
 

Bannerman

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I don't believe there are any adaptors to allow the existing bypass to connect to the Whirlpool.

Whirlpool, Sears and the big box store GE units are not highly regarded on this site due to low quality components, unreliable operation and frequency of service requirements.

Fleck, Clack and Autotrol are high quality valves that are very reliable and are most recommended here.

As I expect your old softener was equipped with a Fleck valve, why not install a new similar Fleck unit or repair the old one. Why are you replacing the softener? They typically operate 20+ years without requiring major repairs.
 

SHR

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You have to cut off the old valve and male adapters and connect new pipe to your softener. For someone of your apparent skill set you can use Sharkbite fittings and PEX pipe for ease of installation.
 

ayau

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I don't believe there are any adaptors to allow the existing bypass to connect to the Whirlpool.

Whirlpool, Sears and the big box store GE units are not highly regarded on this site due to low quality components, unreliable operation and frequency of service requirements.

Fleck, Clack and Autotrol are high quality valves that are very reliable and are most recommended here.

As I expect your old softener was equipped with a Fleck valve, why not install a new similar Fleck unit or repair the old one. Why are you replacing the softener? They typically operate 20+ years without requiring major repairs.

Long story short, I'm selling an old house that has a broken softener and was going to swap with a new softener. Didnt know the big brands were low quality.

Did some research and the old softener looks really similar to the fleck models. The analog meter looks exactly the same. I thought a separate system was inferior to the all in ones.
 

SHR

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Whirlpool, Sears and the big box store GE units are not highly regarded on this site due to low quality components, unreliable operation and frequency of service requirements.

Nonsense! Interestingly all of the brands you listed are Eco-Water units made in Minnesota by Americans. Whirlpool, Kenmore and GE are great entry level units for the price, an excellent value. You can spend more for softeners and of course you can purchase more expensive higher quality units, but why? In your situation your softener is a perfect choice. Do not waste any time second guessing. I have installed hundreds of the Eco-Water units branded as Whirlpool, Kenmore or GE and have never had a problem.

The Whirlpool comes with a built-in bypass valve with 1" FPT connections. The big box stores have flexible connector hoses that will attach to your 3/4" copper and connect to your softener. Try to use the Sharkbite brand hoses. As a professional plumber I would use a different installation method, but in your situation I think the hoses will be fine. Good luck.
 
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ditttohead

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The all in ones are not preferred, they are difficult to service, maintain, and are very limiting in their design. People can defend the big box store units all they want, but... after working on residential, commercial, industrial, and pharmaceutical systems for 25 years, I would not recommend the big box units to anyone except for those who want to install something into a house they are selling if the listing claims a working softener. Most of the bog box stores have only one thing in mind, lowest bidder.
Your bypass is a Fleck brass bypass which was discontinued nearly 15 years ago. It was replaced with a Stainless Steel bypass. Sounds like you got a good amount of service out of your old unit, and it was probably easily repairable. We have units out in the field that are over 25 years old, still working just fine.
 

Reach4

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I am not a plumber, and what I am thinking of may be stupid. But I am thinking that if you sawed that brass bypass, you could unscrew one leg and then the other. From there I am thinking you could go to flex lines to the new bypass.

I think a plumber would heat up the fittings with a potent torch, pull the soldered fittings apart, and go from there. He would be done before I was ready to start cutting.
 

ditttohead

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What to do starts with the new softener height and plumbing connectors. Simple JG flex lines sure do make installs easy for jobs like this.
flexdetail_1000x575.jpg
 
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ayau

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The all in ones are not preferred, they are difficult to service, maintain, and are very limiting in their design. People can defend the big box store units all they want, but... after working on residential, commercial, industrial, and pharmaceutical systems for 25 years, I would not recommend the big box units to anyone except for those who want to install something into a house they are selling if the listing claims a working softener. Most of the bog box stores have only one thing in mind, lowest bidder.
Your bypass is a Fleck brass bypass which was discontinued nearly 15 years ago. It was replaced with a Stainless Steel bypass. Sounds like you got a good amount of service out of your old unit, and it was probably easily repairable. We have units out in the field that are over 25 years old, still working just fine.

The old fleck softener still works, but we needed new one for a house we're selling and thought it would be nice to use a newer softener. I didn't know the big box softeners were inferior.
 

ditttohead

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Is a Huffy from Wallymart inferior to a Cannondale?

When the lowest bid is the primary factor... you can finish that thought.

Just like a car, you can get some really bad cars for a very low price, or you can get a great car by getting out of the lowest price versions and stepping up to a slightly more expensive vehicle. I have several hobbies, and I never buy the cheapest of anything, nor do I buy the most expensive (except for RC cars). when you get the lowest price, every item is a compromise to be the cheapest. When a few extra bucks can be spent, the worst items are the first things to get replaced with higher quality items.
 

SHR

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I think it is interesting you all bashing the work of my neighbors at Eco-Water. I stand by my statement the "big box store" softeners are great values for most homeowners. "Dittohead" is right to an extent, of course you can purchase a Cannondale which uses great quality components, but many times a Schwinn will perform the same function at a good value. If the OP has to replace an old analog softener in order to pass inspection to sell the house, the Whirlpool is a great choice. Please, I would not wish an analog softener on anyone.

As far as making money replacing them, good for you all. But of the hundreds I have installed through the years I rarely get a call back and have never had to replace one.
 

DonL

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I think if you tried to loosen that connection, You should hire someone to install the new one for you.

I did enjoy the laugh, Thank You.


Good Luck on your project.
 

ditttohead

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The analog 5600... I doubt that there is a more reliable, simple, or longer lasting valve on the market. It has been a favorite for the light commercial market for decades. The Big Box store units are simply the lowest bidder wins softeners, and many are now looking to some even lower end overseas manufacturers in order to be $5 cheaper than they are now. I would not compare the Big Box Stores to a Schwinn, that is why I used Huffy, they are literally as low cost as they can be. I stopped servicing them years for many reasons. A Fleck, Clack, or Autotrol based unit is a great balance of price and quality. And like the op's system, they will last for decades with little service. The 5600 Electromechanical system is the most bulletproof design available, my main problem with them is their lack of adjustability and lack of diagnostics, but sine they rarely break, diagnostics are not that important. The 5600 is rebuildable in 5 minutes and you don't have to worry if it is going to work, they always do. Its only real weak spot is the 24 volt motor, but these usually last 5-15 years and are replaceable in a matter of minutes.

I am not bashing the systems, only pointing out some things to consider when purchasing a softener. Just look at the other major appliances available at the big box stores, most of them have their range from the very low end/lowest price, to the high end. The softeners are available as only the lowest prices version, and usually a slightly larger version with all the same low parts.
 

DonL

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Love whirlpool and GE, I make a fortune replacing them


I loved the junk that Montgomery Ward and Sears sold in the day.

Made me a darn good living, when I was a younger.

You should know if you see it for sale or buy it at Walmart, you are buying a POS.

But WM takes back everything. Many times even if you did not buy it there.

I got a Montgomery Ward catalog in the mail the other day.
I guess out houses are back in, The paper was not even Waxed.


Have Fun Everyone.
 

DonL

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The analog 5600... I doubt that there is a more reliable, simple, or longer lasting valve on the market.

I agree. I have one from the days when the 120V timer was the norm.

The timer motor failed after 10 years.

I took the motor apart lubed it, and it still works good after 20+ years. It could use new media, but I still get soft water.


Nothing a little KY jelly can't fix.
 

Tom Sawyer

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I'm not shy. I'm not only bashing them, I'm bashing the hell out of them. A 600 dollar waste of money.
 

SHR

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Mr. Sawyer I have respected your contributions to the forums but you have destroyed your credibility with me. It is sad to me that you bash quality American made products. Good luck to you.
 
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