Gurgling in one half of kitchen sink

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DirtyJerz

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Hello,
Have a two bowl kitchen sink. Recently replaced the dishwasher hose to have a proper high loop (previous hose had a bunch of excess flopping around under the sink) and now anytime the left sink is used for more than a few seconds, the right sink gurgles. With a flashlight I can see air bubbles periodically coming up the horizontal waste pipe connecting the right sink to the drain.
No AAV here, just a normal vent going behind the wall to the roof.
No issues if I plug up the left sink and then let it drain. No issues, as far as I can tell, when using the right sink.

Here’s a photo of the plumbing under the counter. Any advice?

B77A661D-CAC1-468E-B575-70D658CB7CAC.jpeg
 
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Clutchcargo

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Is the drain for the right sink lower than the trap weir? That drain needs to be placed a bit higher. The way it is here, it can never fully drain.
Edit: Another look, I don't think you can make that work. The drain entering the wall is too high.
 
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DirtyJerz

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The distance to the bottom of the pipe going into the wall (it’s been this way since the house was built 30 years ago) is 15.5 inches. The distance to the bottom of the sink strainer is about 20.

Which part are you saying needs to be higher? I do have a bit of vertical wiggle room in the pipes here.
 

Reach4

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Distance to bottom of the horizontal waste pipe is 14 inches.
I am thinking that you are measuring up from the floor of the cabinet.

You certainly want the horizontal piece to be higher than the trap adapter at the wall. Would it help if you introduce the dishwasher into the horizontal piece?

A shallower basket on the left could help.
I am not a pro.
 

DirtyJerz

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Your thinking is correct.

Looks like I can get a little over an inch of vertical space by putting the same basket on the left as what I have on the right.

I don’t know that moving the dishwasher would help much since the limiting factor is where the waste pipe enters the tee below the left sink, right? So my only options here are a shallower basket or a new sink that’s mounted above the counter instead of below it.

But even with a shallower basket, I would not fully clear the pipe in the wall. That is, right now, the top of the horizontal waste pipe is below the bottom of the wall pipe. A shallower basket will allow me to have some overlap such that at least half of the waste pipe will be above the bottom of the wall pipe, but it will not clear it completely.

Will that be good enough?
 

Reach4

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I don’t know that moving the dishwasher would help much since the limiting factor is where the waste pipe enters the tee below the left sink, right? So my only options here are a shallower basket or a new sink that’s mounted above the counter instead of below it.

There is opening the wall. If the drain pipe goes vertical, that may not be as hard as you think if the plumbing is PVC. If it is old galvanized, as I dealt with, it is hard to cut the old stuff.

But is there a tailpiece with an elbow up high? Check https://www.lowes.com/pd/Zurn-ADA-Offset-Basket-Strainer/5001933543

zurn-offset-sink-drain.jpg


Maybe two of those feeding a center-output tee. (discard the downturn) Yes, those are less liked than the bottom outlet tees, but it might make things high enough. There may be other things that would work even better.




Will that be good enough?
I would not thinks so.

Also, your trap seal looks to deep. That should be between 2 and 4 inches.

A self-leveling laser level is helpful for measuring and for making easy-to-understand photos.
 
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DirtyJerz

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There is opening the wall. If the drain pipe goes vertical, that may not be as hard as you think if the plumbing is PVC
Oh no, the plumbing switches to metal before it even reaches the wall. The drain pipes themselves are copper, if you can believe it.
Maybe two of those feeding a center-output tee.
Funny you mention this. There used to be a disposal here that was set up in this fashion. But I looked at the old pipes, which I still have, and they weren’t mounted any higher. So wouldn’t it have the same problem?
Also, your trap seal looks to deep. That should be between 2 and 4 inches.
if I measure the J-bend I get about 5.5” from where it starts to the top of the “valley”.

Ultimately I suspect when originally built this kitchen had a single sink that was mounted above the counter. When they switched to a double sink and mounted it below the counter, they didn’t bother updating the hardware behind the wall, and here we are.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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I'd measure it up with a shallow basket strainer, and "direct connect" waste and overflow fittings and one that has the wye branch for the dishwasher built in.. or install in on the horizontal run if needed.. but it needs to be on the sink side of the trap.
 

Reach4

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Oh no, the plumbing switches to metal before it even reaches the wall. The drain pipes themselves are copper, if you can believe it.
Better copper than steel. Much easier to cut in the wall, if it comes to that.
Funny you mention this. There used to be a disposal here that was set up in this fashion. But I looked at the old pipes, which I still have, and they weren’t mounted any higher. So wouldn’t it have the same problem?
You may have had a shallower and top-mounted sink then. I see you mentioned that in your last paragraph. Plus, you did not have to feed the dishwasher into a branch tailpiece, but rather you likely fed it into the disposal.
 

DirtyJerz

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To be clear the sink hasn’t changed. The old setup was:
- dishwasher going into disposal
- disposal and left sink connected into a middle tee
- middle tee connected to a fixed J bend with hand-cut rubber like tubing to account for the offset

New setup is
- no disposal, new strainer in its place (right sink)
- straight drain instead of center
- adjustable J bend replacing the combination of center T, strapped-on hose, and fixed J bend

I'd measure it up with a shallow basket strainer, and "direct connect" waste and overflow fittings and one that has the wye branch for the dishwasher built in.. or install in on the horizontal run if needed.. but it needs to be on the sink side of the trap.
Hold on, at least according to the diagram on the dishwasher tailpiece, what I have now is a direct connection. Are you saying I should do a slip joint instead? Wasn’t clear to me honestly which I should be using as at least with the new strainer it seemed like I could make either work. The slip joint would appear to require less vertical space.

Btw in case it’s not clear, the right sink is shallower. So I don’t think that moving the dishwasher connection is going to achieve anything.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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From what I'm seeing. The Right side sink horizontal arm that connects to the left sink is already lower in height than your drain at the wall. Which means that whole contraption is full of waste all the time. Every time you drain the sinks, the new water has to push the old out all that way.

What I'm proposing is changing both basket strainers to shallow strainers for maximum height. Changing the R sink to a direct connect wye which will connect between the bays to the L sink via half of a center outlet continuous waste kit. New trap to the trap arm at the wall.

Double Kit Sink.jpg
 

Reach4

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DirtyJerz

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New piece:
Ok that’s not new, that’s exactly what I have.

I’m surprised no one said anything about the flexible J bend. Apparently those aren’t legal.

You guys were sadly right about the dishwasher tee though. Even cutting it down to the shortest length, it still ends up being too tall relative to the pipe coming out of the wall. Quite a bummer as I liked not having a ton of hose under the sink.

Will post an update with the finished setup for feedback.
 

Jeff H Young

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those flexy j bends are crap No Idea if anyone assumed its legal thought plan was to get rid of it?
ultimate goal for me would be have the horizontal connection between 2 sinks above the the trap arm ( pipe coming out of wall that ptreap connects to) . and Lose the Accordion. I know New Jersey has different code than mine so I'd consider the D/W connection to see whether an air gap is needed
 

DirtyJerz

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Here’s the end result.

Coming out of the wall I’ve got a 90° elbow to the left. Then a wall bend down to a reversed J-bend up to a straight coupling attached to an end tee.

On the right I’ve got a 12” extension cut down to about 10” followed by a dishwasher branch facing up followed by a tiny waste pipe (left over from the original setup).

Seems to work ok, vertical distance between the bottom of the wall bend and the top of the J bend is just about 4 inches. Quite a bit more connections than I would like but I think that’s the best I could do given the position of the pipe coming out of the wall. No gurgling as far as I can tell. Proper high loop without excessive snaking of the dishwasher hose under the sink.

Hopefully inspector agrees.

7DE7CE50-10C8-484D-A568-8EB9382D4555.jpeg
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Looks good. The horizontal continuous waste is above the trap weir, so now the whole system will drain out down to that level.
 

Jeff H Young

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Not a good view of the dishwasher wye , Id roll the wye all the way up with branch on top just because I could. Let us know if it passes the Dishwasher in some area require an air gap and some dont. Did a quick check and source said it requires an airgap So.... Looks like a fail State of New Jersey Right?
 

DirtyJerz

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, Id roll the wye all the way up with branch on top just because I could
I don’t follow this? There is not enough vertical clearance to connect the dishwasher under the right sink drain. That was the first attempt and it did not work.
Did a quick check and source said it requires an airgap
Not sure about your source, I have never seen an airgap in New Jersey in my life. A high loop is all that’s needed.
For others facing this in the future, one of these might be worth considering:
yeah the only reason I didn’t go with this was because it would have required snaking the drain hose under both sinks and then turning it around “backwards”. If the dishwasher was on the left side, this would have definitely been the way to go.
 
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