Fleck5600SXT with Carbon Upflow Troubleshooting

[quadrdr17]

I have the 48k grain Fleck 5600SXT water softener with carbon upflow system. After initial install my water was very soft and silky feeling. After 2 months it feels like I have hard water again. The water started feeling harder after the first REGEN. I am using Potassium because I have plants on the same water line. I'm willing to switch to sodium only if it will help the problem. I will water my plants another way. I did the backflush on the carbon upflow but I get carbon in my toilets. ABCwaters said some of the dust must have made it past the softener. I think that is what is making my water not so soft right now. I have 10grain hardness and now it is about 1grain. My settings are below. I have 5 people in the house but we use the water of about 2 people. It takes about 4 weeks to get the gallons down to 0. The DO seems to run the REGEN before the counter.

System info (not programmed)
BLFC = 0.5 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin = 1.5 ; ft3 resin = (nominal grains)/32,000
Raw hardness = 10
People = 5 ; gallons affects reserve calc

Fleck 5600SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = dF1b ; Downflw/Upflw, Single Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
NT = 1 ; Number of tanks
C = 33.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 14 ; Hardness-- compensation for high hardness and iron.
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 240 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 21 ; Day Override (28 if no iron)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
BW = 5 ; Backwash (minutes)
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes
RR = 5 ; Rapid Rinse minutes
BF = 7 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = P0.7

 

[Reach4]

with carbon upflow system

What does that mean? You have a separate tank before the softener?

I have 5 people in the house but we use the water of about 2 people. It takes about 4 weeks to get the gallons down to 0. The DO seems to run the REGEN before the counter.

See
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_fleck5600sxt_flow-png.31592/

I suspect FM setting is set wrong.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[quadrdr17]

What does that mean? You have a separate tank before the softener?

Yes, I have a separate tank full of carbon before the water softener. I got it to reduce chlorine and smell I get sometimes. Also, I forgot to mention that I am on city water. This is what I have: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XCCF9TR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[quadrdr17]

What does that mean? You have a separate tank before the softener?

See
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/img_fleck5600sxt_flow-png.31592/

I suspect FM setting is set wrong.

Looking at the picture, mine is definitely the dome style.

 

[Reach4]

Looking at the picture, mine is definitely the dome style.

Make sure that FM is not set for FM=t0.7.

If you fill a 5 gallon bucket or the bathtub, does the count-down number go down by the appropriate amount?

 

[quadrdr17]

Make sure that FM is not set for FM=t0.7.

If you fill a 5 gallon bucket or the bathtub, does the count-down number go down by the appropriate amount?

It does count correctly. I use about 200gal/day according to my water bill but I would say more than half is to irrigation which is separate water than the softener besides the plants I do have on the same water. I really believe my problem is that the REGEN is not cleaning the resin bed or the carbon upflow has something wrong with it and too much carbon dust is passing through the softener.

 

[Reach4]

You called your carbon tank an upflow unit. That usually means that it does not regen. I think you know that, but just checking.

The backwash on a 10 inch tank should be 2.4 gpm. You could see how long it takes to fill a 5 gallon bucket with the drain during a backwash.

I would suggest you put a boiler drain valve between the carbon tank and the softener. That could be used for a GHT pressure gauge to see if there is excessive pressure drop through the carbon. It could also be used to run maybe 5 gpm of water thru a garden hose to backwash the carbon tank and get carbon powder out.

 

[Bannerman]

The link below will open a page that compares up-flow vs down-flow carbon filters and discusses the importance for backwashing carbon.
https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/32-33

Since you suspect your softener issue is caused by carbon 'fines' that have accumulated in the resin bed which are not being flushed away, you could increase the Backwash time on the softener control. Ten minutes is a common BackWash setting. For an extended initial Backwash, advance the controller to Backwash and then remove electrical power to the controller. Without power, the valve cannot advance so BackWash will continue for as long as you wish until a few minutes after power is restored or you manually advance the controller.

The appropriate BW flow rate for your 10" diameter softener will be 2.4 gpm as specified as DLFC usually indicated on a label located nearby to the drain line connection. Suggest verifying the drain flow rate as I have seen units where an incorrect flow restrictor was installed, resulting in insufficient flushing and expansion of the resin.

 

[Reach4]

The appropriate BW flow rate for your 10" diameter softener will be 2.4 gpm as specified

Backwash rate on a 10 inch carbon tank would be more like 5 gpm I think.

quadrdr17,

1. How soft is your cold water the day after you regenerate?
2. How soft is you cold water a few days before you expect to regenerate?

 

[quadrdr17]

My water is only a little bit softer after regeneration. There is more silkyness but not like when I first installed the system. Before regeneration I don't feel any silkyness but the water isn't hard enough to leave deposits anymore. When checking the hardness after regeneration I'm about 1 and before regeneration it goes up to about 2.

 

[quadrdr17]

ABCwaters said that carbon doesn't add to hardness of water. They told me to increase my backwash time, rapid rinse, and brine fill.

 

[Reach4]

You really should quantify the hardness leakage with a Hach 5-B test.

If you have a 3-valve external bypass, make sure the middle valve is closed. Probably you have the only bypass on the back of the softener valve. Check to make sure that is set to normal position.

A wrong adapter or distributor tube or missing seal at the top of the distributor tube could cause this, except that the softening would not have been great initially. Could the seal have gone bad after a week or two? Here is the test for that bypassing: trigger a regen, and monitor the salt level coming out of the brine tube during the BD cycle. It would normally take several (10 or 15?) minutes to get increased saltiness at the drain. If the saltiness increases significantly early in the BD cycle, the water is bypassing the distributor tube.

To detect saltiness, you can taste with your mouth. You can also use a TDS meter (they are cheap). Expect large increase in TDS when the saltiness increases. During the BD, the TDS should be normal for several minutes, then have a many minute saltiness, and then go back to almost normal by the end of the BD.

Another thing to check is to make sure the brine in the brine tank is being sucked down all of the way in about 15 minutes during the BD cycle.

 

[Bannerman]

Regeneration using Potassium Chloride will not be as efficient vs Sodium Chloride which is why a larger amount of Potassium per regen cycle was recommended.

Potassium Chloride solubility is highly variable by temperature compared to Sodium Chloride. Since Potassium will re-crystalize as temperature changes, the usual recommendation is for Brine Fill to occur at the beginning of the regeneration cycle, so the brine temperature will have less opportunity to fluctuate before the brine is consumed. Unfortunately, the Fleck 5600 does not offer Fill First.

While true that carbon within the softener's resin bed will not in itself cause the water to be harder, for regeneration to occur most efficiently, sediment and other contaminants are removed from the resin at the start of regeneration during BW. This will allow the brine solution greater contact with the resin, not contaminants that do not provide softening capacity. An accumulation of contaminants in the resin can lead to higher hardness leakage through the resin as the contaminants can provide greater opportunity for channeling which is a path through the resin where hardness leakage can occur.

Since you currently do not have an ability to regularly backwash the carbon to remove 'fines', sediment etc, you may want to consider at least installing a sediment filter between the carbon tank and softener so as to capture the carbon debris exiting the carbon tank before it enters the softener.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/53