DWV Rough Inspection Feedback

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rhillson

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Hi All,

Had my rough inspection today and 2 things inspector wanted me to change. Perhaps the answer is I just need to change and please the inspector regardless whether my design is OK, but curious for feedback.

1) Toilet from floor above into horizontal branch. Upstream of picture are at the end a shower (vented shortly downstream), tub (wet vented to shower vent), and closest to toilet, a dual-vanity (AAV vent up from three way tee-wye). Per the red mark-up in my attached photo, inspector said he wants the toilet to come down to 90 and then into a horizontal wye, vs slightly angled like I have it now.

2) I used three way-tee-wye whatever it's called (not sani-tee) to combine 2" washing machine and laundry sink drains before going into 3" 45 wye of horizontal branch. Attached diagram is how I have it now. Inspector said washing machine needs to go directly into 3" branch instead.

Look forward to any feedback on whether what I did is acceptable or not....and secondarily do I just bite bullet and fix it how inspector wants or fight it somehow)

Regards,
Roger

Toilet 45+Wye small.jpg
Standpipe-Sink WyeTee.png
 
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wwhitney

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I think one of the proposed changes is not required by the relevant codes, but there is some debate on that; no advice on whether to just make that change to comply, or to have a discussion about the relevant code sections.

Some background: Ohio has adopted the IPC (Plumbing) and IRC (Residential, an "All-In-One" code). The model codes are written for the IRC to take precedence in single family homes, but jurisdictions may make amendments when adopting them. Per up.codes, Ohio has amended out the DWV portions of the IRC (in particular Chapter 31 on Vents), so you would be subject to the IPC.

1) The question here is whether there is a limitation on the wye angle for the WC to join the branch drain that is horizontally wet venting it. The IRC (not applicable to you) says in P3108.1 "Each fixture drain shall connect horizontally to the horizontal branch being wet vented or shall have a dry vent." Which would preclude the arrangement shown.

However, similar language is missing from the IPC, see section 912. So I would say that the WC is not required to connect horizontally, and the configuration in the photo is fine. There is definitely some disagreement about this; some would say that it is just implicit in the name "horizontal wet venting" that the connection must be horizontal, but I don't find that convincing.


2) The configuration in the drawing would be acceptable under the IRC, but that is not applicable to you (*). The IPC has a requirement (406.2) that any drain carrying both the laundry standpipe and another fixture (i.e. a branch drain carrying the laundry standpipe) be at least 3".

So in your drawing the "double fixture fitting" would need a 3" outlet, with the wye changed to 3x3x3, etc. Charlotte's catalog does show a 3x2x3x3 double fixture fitting, which I expect you could use with bushings in the side entries to make into a 3x2x2x2 fitting.


Cheers, Wayne

(*) Looking at up.codes, it seems a bit murky. Chapter 25 of the IRC has been amended to incorporate the Ohio Plumbing Code into the Ohio Residential Code. But some of the plumbing IRC chapters have not been omitted, including Chapter 27 and section P2718 on washing machines, which is the analog to IPC 406 on washing machines. So I guess you are subject to both P2718 and IPC 406, and so the IPC406.2 limitation does apply.
 

rhillson

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I think one of the proposed changes is not required by the relevant codes, but there is some debate on that; no advice on whether to just make that change to comply, or to have a discussion about the relevant code sections.

Some background: Ohio has adopted the IPC (Plumbing) and IRC (Residential, an "All-In-One" code). The model codes are written for the IRC to take precedence in single family homes, but jurisdictions may make amendments when adopting them. Per up.codes, Ohio has amended out the DWV portions of the IRC (in particular Chapter 31 on Vents), so you would be subject to the IPC.

1) The question here is whether there is a limitation on the wye angle for the WC to join the branch drain that is horizontally wet venting it. The IRC (not applicable to you) says in P3108.1 "Each fixture drain shall connect horizontally to the horizontal branch being wet vented or shall have a dry vent." Which would preclude the arrangement shown.

However, similar language is missing from the IPC, see section 912. So I would say that the WC is not required to connect horizontally, and the configuration in the photo is fine. There is definitely some disagreement about this; some would say that it is just implicit in the name "horizontal wet venting" that the connection must be horizontal, but I don't find that convincing.
THANK YOU for the feedback sir! I think I'm stuck on #2, oversight or poor interpretation of code on my part. Think I've got to sleep on addressing #1. Going to be a tight fit to get it purely horizontal and obviously re-work time stinks.

EDIT. Stack is venting my toilet downstream, no fixtures above. Still considered wet vented?
 
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wwhitney

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Generally a fixture drain has to be vented before or as it joins another drain. [The IPC has an exception for two fixture drains to join and be dry vented downstream by a common vent, but that is restricted to 2 fixtures.] So since the WC joins the shower/tub/double vanity drain before joining the stack, it has to be made a compliant wet vent, not rely on the stack for venting.

You could of course separate the WC drain and the shower/tub/double vanity drain, bringing the latter into the stack on a separate san-tee below the san-tee where the WC joins the stack. That would let the stack dry vent the WC, but the other drain would end up below the joists.

Also, note that "horizontal" in the plumbing codes means at an angle that is more than 45 degrees from plumb. So the branch inlet of a wye with the barrel at 2% slope is "horizontal" whenever the wye is rolled off vertical. But your other elbow is so close that I would say it is reasonable to treat the connection as not horizontal, i.e. to look at the wye and elbow together. [Is the configuration shown: spigot end closet flange - street 45 - 45 - wye?]

BTW, an "upright wye" (both inlets parallel) made from a 3" wye and a 3" street 45 has the inlets 5-7/8" apart c-t-c. So if you room for it, the WC fixture drain could go horizontal in the joist bay parallel to the branch drain, and join via the upright wye. The WC fixture drain could be a little higher than the branch drain, per the preceding discussion of horizontal.

Cheers, Wayne

PS You'll likely need a few Fernco 3005-33 couplings to make the changes.
 

rhillson

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It's a 45 spigot flange, 1/8th, and the wye. I'll have to see what I can fit if inspector doesn't accept my last begging plea to accept what I've got as horizontal (enough). It was confusing because his main argument was that some poo might go upstream at the wye, not improper wet venting.

You bring up the Fernco's because upright wye only being available in Cast Iron, right?
 
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wwhitney

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No, because if you are doing limited rework, you will end up working between fixed ends, so you will need the flexibility to connect the rework between the fixed ends.

On the upright wye, no need for that as a one piece fitting, you can use a wye and street 45.

The inspector's explanation may have been why he would consider connection not to be an acceptable wet vent, even if he didn't mention venting. If you really think that he was making a blanket statement that a drain carrying a WC has to connect to a horizontal drain horizontally, ask him for a code reference on that. There isn't one.

Having said all that, it may be the case that connecting horizontally would perform better, I don't have the experience to know. But I don't see any obvious reason it would.

Cheers, Wayne
 

rhillson

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Thank you so much for the whole chat. Ego will recover, plumbing will get fixed. Clearly better at electrical & carpentry vs. plumbing :)
 
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