Dishwasher Tailpiece has stem too low after new undermount sink and granite top install

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Charlie Bosco

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Ok so I am still battling a kitchen sink wall drain that is too high and I am not planning to rip into the walls as it runs horizontally through the walls behind the cabinets.

So wife and I decided to forgo the garbage disposal since the new sink can be plumbed and still fit. Till I got to the damn dishwasher.
To start, my sink basket is not a deep basket, its seems to be the typical size. However, All the Dishwasher tailpieces have the stub way too low and that brings my trap way too low. At this point I want a solution that works and dont give a shit about code. I need to hook this sink up.

Do they make a dishwasher tailpiece that addresses this situation?
Is there a special dishwasher stem that can be added anywhere in the line?
At this time I plan to use a tailpiece as horizontal pipe that leads into the wall. Yes its after the trap but I see no other reasonable option to deal with my dishwasher.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Have you tried a Direct Connect dishwasher wye? When I've looked this up before they all seem to have a large gap between the nut/flange and the wye branch.. There are combo WYE and Tee fittings too that may help.

*edit* the fitting shown is a direct connect Tee.. so the tee has the flange and nut built in. Would be the most compact fitting. Or a similar Continuous waste and install the WYE horizontally between the sink basins.


1707407415966.png
 

Charlie Bosco

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Have you tried a Direct Connect dishwasher wye? When I've looked this up before they all seem to have a large gap between the nut/flange and the wye branch.. There are combo WYE and Tee fittings too that may help.

*edit* the fitting shown is a direct connect Tee.. so the tee has the flange and nut built in. Would be the most compact fitting. Or a similar Continuous waste and install the WYE horizontally between the sink basins.


View attachment 97108
I found a workable solution. While not ideal this solves all the issues and drains fine without leaks. I know the collapsible hose will gunk up but I can remove it periodically and clean it if needed. The pipes are straight.. the photo make it look like they are angled.
IMG_5309.jpeg
 

Jeff H Young

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Do what you want. but I dont see that as a reasonable option I only hope its temporary
 

Charlie Bosco

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Do what you want. but I dont see that as a reasonable option I only hope its temporary
The only thing I can see besides the corrugated pipe is the fact that water will be in the trap past the union. Unless someone shows me a better more permanent solution. I have to stick with this if I want to use my kitchen. I'd like to punch the idiot who ran that drain inlet over 20" off the floor.

Also ran the dishwasher for a test run and all went well and dry.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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ok based on that photo I would be more inclined to install a wye at the wall and dedicate a tubular trap to each the sink and the dishwasher. Its even legal in some jurisdictions.. just definitely not UPC.. but still way better than the krinkle drain.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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I'd like to punch the idiot who ran that drain inlet over 20" off the floor.
In the Olden days.. and we do it to a degree now, drains were kept high as possible to leave more space under the sink for other junk that accumulates and never gets used.

We have so many bathroom sinks where there is only a 10" tall cabinet that doesn't touch the floor.. our RI's are so high that we have to use push pop ups and bottle traps to get them to fit. By Design!
 

John Gayewski

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I would at a minimum tie that dishwasher hose up to the bottom of the counter top. It looks to me like everything you wash down your kitchen sink is going to go into your dishwasher hose.
 

Jeff H Young

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Second trap might meet ipc and would be better I thought of that too as mentioned by Tuttles ( i guess the johnson tee airgap) its a bit of work but a pretty slick and sanitary connection Id think
 

Charlie Bosco

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ok based on that photo I would be more inclined to install a wye at the wall and dedicate a tubular trap to each the sink and the dishwasher. Its even legal in some jurisdictions.. just definitely not UPC.. but still way better than the krinkle drain.
That sounds interesting.. DO you have a photo or diagram that shows something like this? Also why would the DW need a trap? If I put the proper high loop wont that do as well?
 

Charlie Bosco

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I would at a minimum tie that dishwasher hose up to the bottom of the counter top. It looks to me like everything you wash down your kitchen sink is going to go into your dishwasher hose.
Yes I agree.. I need to replace the DW drain line anyway. Last night I found a small crack in the corrugated wall.
 

Jeff H Young

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Charlie , The dishwasher dosent need a trap, but it MUST connect upstream of a Trap. So Tuttles mentioned 2 traps it would solve that issue and save the verticle hieght.
Im not sure how he was recomending you do it ? I think he suggested a Johnson Tee type install since that was Washington style , it may have changed because its a bit more work. maybe he will clarify
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Charlie , The dishwasher dosent need a trap, but it MUST connect upstream of a Trap. So Tuttles mentioned 2 traps it would solve that issue and save the verticle hieght.
Im not sure how he was recomending you do it ? I think he suggested a Johnson Tee type install since that was Washington style , it may have changed because its a bit more work. maybe he will clarify
I hadn't recommended an air gap for the DW.. but it really should have one for water safety.. but for functionality of the DW itself its not needed. There are several ways to hook up a DW to a trap. The best way I think is to install a union trap (That is a glue trap with a ground joint connection at the J-Bend) Then glue in a small riser and PVC slip x threaded bushing. In the threaded bushing, thread in a brass Barb fitting that the dishwasher drain hose will connect to with a worm drive clamp.


PS I've been trying to research why dishwashers need or don't need air gaps in order to protect the water supply. I might follow that up in another thread. For a brief stretch of time our Seattle inspectors were allowing Bosch and Mielle DW to be installed w/o air gaps because they were being manufactured with acceptable backflow. I don't know how that was accomplished but we are back to all DW being required to have airgaps at the time of inspection.
 

Jeff H Young

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As for Airgaps only thing I know or belived was UPC requires an airgap others (IPC) dont so unless a manufacture requires it those places dont require . Ive done the high loop in a pinch and Ive had people argue that those 2 brands dont require an airgap ( posibly others). I tell everyone they are required on all dishwashers in My Code and that we should use one. but he is florida Id high loop there in a minute.
I didnt think hoseclamping to a stand pipe would be a good idea ? Thats why I brought up a johnson tee. I figured a trap needed to be gravity feed Somepeople hook up washing machines that way so they dont overflow I dont think that flys anywhere. Im kinda guessing its not a good idea but it might be splitting hairs and relatively sanitary
 

wwhitney

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The following is based more on inference than first hand experience, so maybe the frequent installers can comment on whether it is correct:

There are two types of tubular dishwasher wyes available. The first kind has a slip joint connection at the top, so it has an expanded region of the pipe below that, as seen in post #3. This is designed to go on an existing sink tailpiece; the expanded region of the pipe at the top means the branch inlet can't be that high up, it has to be below that expanded region.

There are also flanged tailpiece dishwasher wyes available. The top of these are meant to attach directly to the sink strainer, and so they will have a captive nut between the flange and the branch inlet. There's no expanded region at the top of the pipe, so in theory the branch inlet can be higher up. A picture of one is below (not a recommendation or endorsement). That one looks like the branch inlet could be even higher up by 1/2" or 1"; not sure if anything like that is commercially available.

So for the OP, you've used the wrong type of tubular dishwasher wye. If you use a flanged tailpiece wye, it's possible the branch inlet will be high enough so that you can cut the tailpiece short enough so that a regular tubular trap will work with your wall inlet height. Or the trap outlet may still be too low; hard to be tell from your picture.

Cheers, Wayne



71eWZPoAccL._AC_SX679_.jpg
 

Jeff H Young

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the wye branch tail piece in post number 3 is a flange connection just like the one above in waynes post 17 at least thats how it looks to me
 

Jeff H Young

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You may be right, but if that's true, why is the upper portion of the tailpiece expanded like you see on slip joint fittings?

Cheers, Wayne
I dont know why its made that way but Looking closely Im sure its the right one . I belive you can gain space going brass though
 
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