Candid discussion on gas piping risks

[Rmelo99]

Not to thread hi-jack but I'm a DIY'er and have done minor gas piping repairs. I have the "FEAR" of nat gas leaks and what can happen if things aren't done properly.

I have 3 nat gas stories....

In my first house the meter was in the basement. We smelled small amounts of nat gas while down there. One day the gas co. comes knocking that it's time to replace the meter (they do it every 10 years). While he's there we mention the "smell" we've noticed for months now. Long story short in a few hours they were digging up the front lawn to install a new main line to the house since there was a leak where the old came thru the foundation.

During the realestate boom i was rehabbing(flipping houses). Outside one there was always an overwhelming smell of nat gas. I finally realized it was stronger near the street storm drains. At first I thought it was sewer gas, then I convinced my self it wasn't. Called the GAS co and they said "oh we know about it, we're monitoring it". In the 6months I owned the house they came out 3x. Once to drill a bunch of 1" holes for about 50feet in the street.
They knew the street main was leaking but weren't in a rush to fix or replace it. Just monitor the levels. I was pissed b.c any potential buyers coming to the house could smell this stank while driving up to the house.

In my current house the gas lines to the house/meter/inside lines were all replaced when I bought the house. The meter is outside in front of the house. Near the meter there is faint nat gas smell. I called the Gas Co and they tell me it's normal.

So...although I still fear nat gas, I sometimes wonder how much is really needed to go BOOM. I mean my main 3 experiences tell me either the gas company has become de-sensitized to this stuff or I'm just overly cautious.

 

[Kingsotall]

In my current house the gas lines to the house/meter/inside lines were all replaced when I bought the house. The meter is outside in front of the house. Near the meter there is faint nat gas smell. I called the Gas Co and they tell me it's normal.

Mix up some dishsoap and water and spray the fittings around the meter. The fittings mind you, the fittings.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[hj]

gas

Using a flame to test for a gas leak will find a major one, but not a small one which could still blow up the building. The difference is if your brakes fail you have some options once you know about it. Emergency brake, turn off the engine, crash the transmission into REVERSE, etc. A gas leak, when it reaches critical mass, gives little room for options other than running as fast as you can.

The gas utility guys had just finished installing the meter and decided to have a competition to see who could get to the truck first, so they took off running. When they got to the truck they were surprised to see an 80 year old women behind them out of breath. When they asked her what the problem was, she said, "When I see two gas company workers running like h*** away from a building, you don't think I am going to stand around either, do you?"

 

[NHmaster]

Great little story there HJ. This gas subject comes up a few times a year and always with the same predictable responses. You all pretty much know my stand on anyone other than a licensed gas tech having anything to do with gas piping. I really don't care how confident or carefull you think you are. The fact is, if you don't have a license, you don't have the experiance or the supervision necessary to be messing with something as dangerous as gas. You may very well run some piping and test it. You may get a permit and have an inspector come out and look at it. But inspectors don't always see everything. Some are better than others, but which is which? When we were learning to work on gas we had our boss or our master to check us and the inspector to check him. Three licensed professionals double and triple checking the work. So some guy comes on here telling everyone how easy gas piping is and how it can be leak tested and so forth and what may happen is that some homeowner may read the post and decide to tackle the job himself. It is irresponsible at best and damn dangerous at worst to make those kind of posts. If you are not licensed and can't prove it, you will never ever get one single bit of information or advice other than hire a licensed professional.

 

[Thatguy]

More people are killed each year by LP and nat gas explosion than welding cylinder explosions.

In my state you have to have a gas license (5 certifications in fact) to work on or install gas. You need to pass a test. You should be NATE or CEPA certified as well. That said, if you want to do you own gas piping and service than by all means go ahead. I'm pretty sure that an engineers degree encompasses a couple years of practical gas piping and service methods.

I thoroughly object to this entire thread on the grounds that your posts may very well entice other folks reading it to go on and give it a try, with tragic results. If you want to go it on your own, than go ahead, but the rest of the world does not need your input and you will get no pat on the back from those of us that are licensed.

I would only add that risking one's own life is one thing but risking your neighborhood is another.

On another forum a guy wanted to design a device to prevent wheelies in a dragster.
It took me a while to realize that by assisting him in the design I could be held responsible if this 3500# vehicle going 100 mph should do something unpredictable that was traced back to a circuit that I designed.
Even if the circuit were correct the interaction of circuit/vehicle/driver is not easily foreseen by me, and perhaps not by others.

 

[Engineer Ben]

Well, I'll let this one die. I was not claiming either that gas work is not risky or that it is easy. Working with threading anything takes a good hand at the ratchet. The main question was "how risky is it?" in comparison to other risky things.

It's clearly not as dangerous as some things in life and clearly much more dangerous than most others. I want to have a rational understanding of risks. Those who underestimate risks and overestimate their skills may not heed these kinds of thoughts anyway.

I agree it would be irresponsible for a licensed individual to encourage others to do this work. Yet, at the same time I am convinced that the gas utility has a low bar for quality and risk and that contractors may do the tests discussed only if under direct observation.

Maybe this is a better question: If I had a licensed plumber install gas piping but was for some reason skeptical of that individual's level of work (say, I think he really had a laborer perform the work and he just showed up to complete payment) and wanted to double check, or if one wanted to check an existing system, what would one do?

If the answer is hire another licensed plumber to check the other guys work because gas is so dangerous and esoteric of a black box that the non-licensed couldn't possible make any meaningful judgement of the system, I'd have to respectfully disagree.

Yes, you could leave your oven on and leak gas and blow up your neighborhood, too. This happens. But it usually doesn't happen to the kind of people who test their PRV's, clean their gutters, check their tire pressure before long trips and change the batteries in their smoke detectors. It sort of happens to the people who back into their garbage cans, lose their keys a few times a year, sleep through their alarm clocks and leave candles burning when they go to bed.

So, I'll comply with opinions of the master plumbers here and let the thread go.

 

[Gellfex]

Thought I'd revive this one to ask my question, as I have the same mindset as the OP, that for a small piping job I have more confidence in myself than in the bozo the "licensed professional" sends in to actually do the work. Numerous times I've had gas or water leaks on the work of various plumbers, once by a guy with 50 years in. I've had good work by plumbers too, but I've also gotten shockingly sloppy work. Part of the problem in the last decade was that the good plumbers & electricians would never return calls.

My question is: is there any way to do a dependable pressure test without removing the meter if there's no shutoff immediately after the meter? I read somewhere that if you try it, the meter bleeds off some of the pressure. When I put a gauge on the line, it barely reads 1lb, though all the appliances seem to work fine. Is it simply the cheap 15lb gauge I got at my local supply house?

 

[Rich B]

Since this topic popped up again I thought I'd mention that just a couple days ago there was a huge plant explosion in Ct. At least 5 workers were killed and more injured when a Nat gas explosion occured ripping the plant apart. It was reported that they were purging the gas lines. I'm not putting this up for any other reason than to show the danger is real and obviously can happen. Since it was a construction site I am assuming professional licensed tradesman were doing the work. I am sure it will be investigated but how does something like this happen if they were following proper procedures?

 

[Gellfex]

Rich, all I can say relative to this thread is even when professionals are actually doing the work they tend to go fast and loose, while a sane DIY both knows his limitations and goes very slow and careful. The Darwin awards has an epitaph for some gas co employees who responded to a factory reporting a gas smell. The workers had prudently turned off all the electricity, so the "professionals" lit a match so they could see.

 

[Rich B]

I also read of another gas explosion recently at a small office building. Fortunately no one was hurt. No one was in the building when it blew up. Gas company employees were investigating a leak at the street right near the building. Someone had called in to report the smell of gas. So if I smell gas I'm going to call the gas company and also call a cab......

 

[Jimbo]

In my whole life I've heard of only maybe two gas explosions,...

In the last YEAR, there has been the one last weekend in Connecticut which killed 5 workers, and last year a large explosion in the US Grant Hotel in San Diego, under renovation, did major damage but no one died. There have been others in the news.
I am not paranoid about gas, but it deserves healthy respect.

 

[Rmelo99]

I'm in CT and that plant explosion is def a tragedy. In all fairness this was a POWER PLANT and they were purging the gas lines.( Lots of Gas in the Air) and the initial reports are that another tradesman was using a torch.

While I would admit this shows the power of natural gas and it should be worked on with much care. One would think no one has to state not to use open flames around open gas pipes, but apparently it MUST be said.

I've expressed my position on DIYers working on gas pipe in other postings. Regardless of who does the work there are procedures in place that must be followed. Safety and proper leak testing are NOT optional. If you can't follow them all (and that includes permits and pressure testing before being put into service) then DON'T DO IT.

 

[Gellfex]

Regardless of who does the work there are procedures in place that must be followed. Safety and proper leak testing are NOT optional. If you can't follow them all (and that includes permits and pressure testing before being put into service) then DON'T DO IT.

Does that apply to the licensed plumbers that have done unpermitted gas work on my properties on at least 7 occasions, and not once did they pressure test? Twice there was a leak I had to call them back for. I at least pressure tested, sniffed and worried.

My question still stands, is there a way to pressure test without removing the meter?

 

[Rmelo99]

Does that apply to the licensed plumbers that have done unpermitted gas work on my properties on at least 7 occasions, and not once did they pressure test? Twice there was a leak I had to call them back for. I at least pressure tested, sniffed and worried.

My question still stands, is there a way to pressure test without removing the meter?

Yes it does.I'm not saying it's your fault, but you do have the ability to set the terms on any work being done on your properties, if they don't agree to do the permitted route then you don't want them doing the work. There are many pros that "skip" the permit process. The ones that I have dealt with are upfront about it and leave the choice to me. Sometimes the permit gets skiped(its reality regardless if its correct), doesn't mean you can skip other steps like leak testing.

Yes there are ways to pressure test without removing the meter. But it does involve isolating the pipework that has been added so that it can be tested. If you mean a whole system then that means your isolation point must be right after the meter, like it or not.
A professional sometimes may decide that a pressure test isn't needed, this is ajudgement call on his part. Usually when the work involved is minimally invasive, just a fitting or connecting an applicance, extending a line, or making a simple repair. They will use other methods to verify the system is leak free, soap test etc.
I don't think a DIYer has the experience to know when that is the case. That leaves them with no other choice then the pressure test in all cases.

I am a big advocate of DIY work. I try and do just about all the work in my house(yes including gas lines).

I have a very nice gas fireplace I bought on sale at *********. My mother-in-law has been nagging me to give it to her. I told her no problem, she can have it, on one condition. She have a licensed plumber to the piping and have the whole thing permitted.

She is the type of person who has a handyman or family do all the repairs at the house. Guess where that fireplace still is!

 

[Jimbo]

Does that apply to the licensed plumbers that have done unpermitted gas work on my properties on at least 7 occasions, and not once did they pressure test? Twice there was a leak I had to call them back for. I at least pressure tested, sniffed and worried.

My question still stands, is there a way to pressure test without removing the meter?

Your best defense is to be sure the job is permitted. I am not aware of any locality which does NOT require permits for gas work. Meters have unions which make it easy enough to disconnect for testing.