Brine tank not filling.

Users who are viewing this thread

Alex from GA

New Member
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Gainesville, GA
We have a Fleck manual controller and last week the dishwasher was getting us gritty dishes. We called a water softener guy and he said it's calcium on the dishes. I know calcium comes from hard water so I checked the valve and found it not working. A mud wasp built a nest inside and froze the gears and broke the case. I bought a used controller and it works OK. I checked the place where the water goes to the brine tank and water came out when I turned the dial. I filled the tank with water and in a couple of days it's almost dry again. What now? Thanks
 

Attachments

  • CIMG3757.JPG
    CIMG3757.JPG
    171.8 KB · Views: 581

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,054
Reaction score
3,570
Points
113
Location
IL
Your symptom seems to be that the softener regenerated on schedule, but the brine refill part did not work.

Or are the symptoms that the brine tank emptied of brine without a regeneration having occurred? If that, how about a leaky brine tank?

Everybody's thinking that it would have been best to get a new demand softner with new resin, rather than swapping the controller. Now you feel invested.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,288
Reaction score
593
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
The control valve shown in the photo is a Fleck 5600 Time Clock operated model which I expect is the replacement just installed.

Did you replace the entire control valve or only the 'controller' (the electric part that operates the valve below it)? Some people use the word 'controller' when they are actually referring to the entire valve.

You said the original was a 'manual' controller. Are we to assume it was also a Fleck 5600 Time Clock model? There are actually two main types of 5600 Time clock controllers. One for water softener applications and the other for water filters but their appearance is very similar and difficult to distinguish. Your photo is not clear enough to make the text on the controller readable even with the image zoomed-in.

Assuming the controller is correct for a softener, when installing the replacement, did you ensure the salt setting is identical to the setting on the original controller? The salt setting is adjusted on the brine cam assembly located behind the rear cover of the controller. The replacement unit may have been installed on a different size system previously so the setting will need to be reset appropriately for the amount of salt required for your system.

If it was only the controller that was replaced, you will need to also ensure the valve's BLFC flow restrictor, has a flow rating appropriate for the brine cam assembly installed in the controller. The BLFC sets the flow rate for water entering the brine tank and is located directly behind the brine line fitting on the valve. If the brine cam label and BLFC are not matched appropriately, setting the correct salt amount on the brine cam may not result in the correct quantity of water entering the brine tank. Each 1 gal entering the brine tank will dissolve 3 lbs salt so for example, if your system is set for 9 lbs salt, then 3 gallons water should enter the brine tank during the Brine Fill cycle indicated on the front of the controller.

If you only replaced the controller but since the original valve's BLFC appears to be functioning correctly, it would likely be easiest to exchange the brine cam from the replacement controller with the cam from the original controller if the two cams are not identical.

If the entire valve was replaced, then the BLFC and brine cam should already be matched correctly since they came together as a unit.
 
Last edited:

Alex from GA

New Member
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Gainesville, GA
I just checked the tank which I filled yesterday and it's not leaking. I only replaced the controller, not the valve. When I turn the dial everything seems to be working but I don't know enough to know it it's right. I took the valve that releases water into the tank apart and didn't find the parts that a youtube video said that was in it. Is that the flow restrictor? If it is there's an orfice about 1/2" inside that's about 3/16" in diameter that doesn't come out. I moved the white cam to the same setting as the old one was when I installed it. As the tank is full now I'll have to wait a couple of days to see if it's not working correctly. How can I check if the regenerator is working? I'm not up @ 2am. Thanks for the help.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,288
Reaction score
593
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
You likely do not need to disassemble your valve at this point, but this video should clarify where various components such as the Brine Line Flow Control (BLFC) are located.


Here is a link to the Fleck 5600 Manual: https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&sour...FjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2POROsrSAruZg_btfSdgM3

You didn't state the salt setting for your unit, nor did you indicate your softener's total capacity. If you don't know the capacity, you could indicate the resin tank's dimensions (diameter and height) as that will relate to capacity. We may then estimate the regeneration frequency needed depending on the salt setting and an estimate of water consumed. How many people reside in your home? Perhaps the appropriate amount of water is entering the brine tank but you are expecting there should be more.

You can advance the controller to initiate a manual regeneration cycle whenever you wish to observe it. Once started, it should proceed on its own, with brine tank refill occuring as the final operation. The entire regen cycle will likely be close to 90 minutes duration.
 

Alex from GA

New Member
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Gainesville, GA
I just returned from fishing and will check those things in the morning. I try to have my priorities in order. Thanks for the help.
 

Alex from GA

New Member
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Gainesville, GA
The resin tank's dimensions are 10" x 53" to the bottom of the valve. The setting on the white cam is 12, same as the original one, we are a retired couple living in a mobile home for the winter. The brine tank was very low this morning and was full yesterday as I filled it with the hose. Should there be the same amount of water entering the brine tank as going out? Here is a picture of the tank.
 

Attachments

  • CIMG3759.JPG
    CIMG3759.JPG
    170.8 KB · Views: 314

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,288
Reaction score
593
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
The control valve should be automatically adding a specific quantity of water to the brine tank as the final operation of each regeneration cycle.

As stated previously, each 1 gallon will dissolve 3 lbs salt so if the salt setting on the cam inside the controller is set to 9 lbs, then 3 gallons should be automatically entering the tank.

The control valve controls the fluid quantity within the tank. The safety valve and float within the brine tank, are not utilized to set the fluid level in the tank but are used only as a safety device to prevent the tank from overflowing if there is ever a malfunction.

You will need to establish if water will flow into the brine tank by advancing the controller to Brine Fill on the front dial. Does water flow into the tank? If not, if the brine line is disconnected at the top of the brine tank, does water flow from the open line. If water does flow from the line, this indicates a problem with the safety valve, float or air-check valve located within the brine well (plastic tube within the brine tank).

The air-check is a ball located at the tank bottom which will float when there is enough liquid in the tank, but will no longer float when there is insufficient liquid remaining, thereby closing the pickup opening to prevent air from being drawn into the resin tank once the brine has been drawn from the tank.

If water does flow from the brine line during Brine Fill, it should be measured to ensure it is the correct amount for the salt setting.

If water does not flow from the brine line during Brine Fill, this would indicate a problem with the control valve so the valve's brine assembly will then need to be taken apart, cleaned, etc.
 
Last edited:

Alex from GA

New Member
Messages
6
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
Gainesville, GA
There is no "brine fill" marking on the dial but the water flows into the tank just past the "settle rinse" label on the dial. The float in the bottom wasn't letting any more water in the tank than the picture in my last response. I have the float out now and don't know how high to adjust it. The rod it's on won't let it go much higher without hitting the cover in the small tube. I can cut it but don't know how high the water level should be. The white cam is on 12 which may be too high for just the two of us. Do you have a suggestion? I really appreciate your taking the time to help me, thanks.
 

Bannerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,288
Reaction score
593
Points
113
Location
Ontario, Canada
but the water flows into the tank just past the "settle rinse" label on the dial.
It would be helpful if you post all of the labels stated on the dial. A "Settle Rinse" (aka: Rapid Rinse) setting would be also utilized for a filter control so by posting all of the settings, should confirm if you were supplied with the controller for a softener and not for a filter.

The usual cycle settings (and common cycle times) for a 5600 softener are:
SERVICE (Normal operation when supplying soft water to the house)
BACKWASH (10 minutes)
BRINE DRAW (60 minutes)
SETTLE RINSE (10 minutes)
BRINE FILL (time varies depending on the BLFC installed and the salt setting programmed)
after BF, the controller will return to SERVICE mode until the next regeneration cycle is scheduled.

The common tank for 1.5 cuft of resin is 10" X 54" and 10" X 47" for 1.25 cuft. While you stated your tank is an uncommon 10" X 53", it most likely contains 1.5 cuft.

If your brine tank has an overflow fitting somewhere on the side, then the safety float should be adjusted so the incoming water will be stopped before draining out that fitting. If there is no overflow fitting, the float may be as high as it will go since it is only a safety device to prevent the tank from overflowing if there should be a malfunction. If the float is adjusted too low as you are describing, it can shut off the incoming water flow below the level the fluid should reach with the proper salt setting, thereby producing insufficient brine for the amount of capacity to be regenerated.

The float normally slides on the rod which is lifted when the float hits a rubber/plastic ring placed tightly around the rod. That rubber ring can often be slid farther up the rod thereby allowing the float to rise higher before lifting the rod which closes the safety valve.

Another float style has the float permanently fastened to the rod, with the rod running through a hole in the lever which activates the safety valve. Rubber rings are placed on the rod, above and below the lever, so the ring below the lever will be raised by the float, lifting the lever to stop water from flowing into the tank. That lower ring can often be slid downwards, thereby allowing the float to rise higher before stopping water flow. The ring above the valve lever can also be lowered, to hang the float and rod on the valve lever, keeping the float elevated above the usual fluid level in the brine tank. Since the float will lift the rod, excess rod length above the safety valve will sometimes need to be trimmed shorter to prevent the rod from colliding with the brine well cover thereby preventing the safety valve from activating.

We will need to know your water's actual hardness amount as well as the amount of iron and manganese if either is present, so as to calculate the regeneration frequency requirements.
 
Last edited:
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks