Davidb613
New Member
I have an issue which is similar in some respects to what others have posted, but I'm not able to figure this out on my own and I need expert help. I'm a DIYer, this is my first ever well pump replacement. I bought this property a few years ago, and until this past week I knew very little about the well.
Last week my old submersible pump died. My well is Artesian, and flowing, with a very gentle overflow rate. The pump is 70' down and about 300' from the house, with a 100' rise between the well and the house (170', approximately, total rise). I can't imagine how it might matter, but I have a Cycle Stop Valve and a 5 gallon bladder tank. I've never have a problem with it up to now. My pressure switch is 40/60.
The old pump was 3/4 HP, I bought a 1HP model (top of the line) to replace it. I installed the pump and got everything attached again. The water line and drop pipe are 1" HDPE. When I reconnected and tested, I got great pressure to the house, which quickly built to 60+ psi and turned off. At this point, there was a very noticeable sucking sound and the needle quickly plunged (about 10 seconds travel) to 40 psi, when the pump would kick back on. The cycle repeats until I turn off the power to the pump. When the power is off, the pressure falls all the way to 25psi at a smooth rate, then drops instantly to zero.
These symptoms caused me to suspect either a break in the line, a crack in the drop pipe, or a problem with the check valve. I build a homemade pressure gauge device to attach to the lines and charge with compressed air so I could monitor the pressure and hopefully find the source of the problem.
First, I compressed the drop pipe/pump end to 60 psi. It fell steadily and quickly (10 seconds) to 0. Next, I charged the 400' underground line to about 20psi. It held steady for several minutes and very slowly began to lose a little pressure after that, which I figure is probably fine. I don't' really know how long the line is in any exact way, and I don't' even know where the line travels underground, there is no documentation of this.
Next, I pulled the pump out of the well and set it dry land, still connected to its drop pipe. I figured I would pump it up with air and find a leak of some kind, but to my surprise it now held 60psi without any problem, rock solid for over 5 minutes. At this point I thought I might have shaken loose a bit of debris or something from the check valve with all my manhandling of the pump, so I just put it back down in the well again. This time, I left 60psi of air compressed into the drop pipe so I could verify that it made it all the way to the bottom of the well without losing pressure. The pump reached the bottom without any problems and continued to show 60 psi.
After reconnecting everything, the problem returned. I again pressure tested the drop-pipe, and again it passed the test. In frustration I pulled the pressure gauge fitting from the end of the drop pipe while it was still in the well, and to my surprise the water level in the drop pipe (which had been close to the top) began to fall -- I think the small force of the pressure gauge being removed may have unseated the check valve on the pump. I went through a few more air pressure attempts, but the valve seemed to reseat itself and so it was again holding pressure. In every case when the lines were connected to the house, the problem would recur.
My working theory at this point was a bad check valve on the pump, specifically one that was being unseated by the torque of startup or shut down, and therefore was not able to hold back the water pressure as it should.
Today, I returned the pump to the plumbing supply store and they tested it. They couldn't find anything wrong with it, but they gave me a brass check valve to attach directly to the pump to "double up" the check valve. I installed it along with a short nipple to make sure the plastic valve on the pump didn't interfere at all physically with the brass valve.
Deep breath....
It doesn't make a difference -- somehow it is still happening. I noticed that it takes slightly longer for the water to all drain down the supply pipe than it used to, but it is essentially unchanged.
If it were the drop-pipe, I should not have been able to hold 60psi air in the pipe for over 5 minutes with no sign of any pressure drop. If it were the check valve on the pump, why didn't a second brass check valve help? If it were the lines to the house, how did they hold 20psi of air "pretty well" and why would I gain pressure quickly at the house, then lose it just as quickly? To say that I am confounded would be an understatement.
Can anyone help? Even if you don't know what is happening, can you give me a reasonable next step to try? I've thought about maybe installing another check valve just above the well cap, but I've also read it's not great to put a bunch of check valves in the system.
Last week my old submersible pump died. My well is Artesian, and flowing, with a very gentle overflow rate. The pump is 70' down and about 300' from the house, with a 100' rise between the well and the house (170', approximately, total rise). I can't imagine how it might matter, but I have a Cycle Stop Valve and a 5 gallon bladder tank. I've never have a problem with it up to now. My pressure switch is 40/60.
The old pump was 3/4 HP, I bought a 1HP model (top of the line) to replace it. I installed the pump and got everything attached again. The water line and drop pipe are 1" HDPE. When I reconnected and tested, I got great pressure to the house, which quickly built to 60+ psi and turned off. At this point, there was a very noticeable sucking sound and the needle quickly plunged (about 10 seconds travel) to 40 psi, when the pump would kick back on. The cycle repeats until I turn off the power to the pump. When the power is off, the pressure falls all the way to 25psi at a smooth rate, then drops instantly to zero.
These symptoms caused me to suspect either a break in the line, a crack in the drop pipe, or a problem with the check valve. I build a homemade pressure gauge device to attach to the lines and charge with compressed air so I could monitor the pressure and hopefully find the source of the problem.
First, I compressed the drop pipe/pump end to 60 psi. It fell steadily and quickly (10 seconds) to 0. Next, I charged the 400' underground line to about 20psi. It held steady for several minutes and very slowly began to lose a little pressure after that, which I figure is probably fine. I don't' really know how long the line is in any exact way, and I don't' even know where the line travels underground, there is no documentation of this.
Next, I pulled the pump out of the well and set it dry land, still connected to its drop pipe. I figured I would pump it up with air and find a leak of some kind, but to my surprise it now held 60psi without any problem, rock solid for over 5 minutes. At this point I thought I might have shaken loose a bit of debris or something from the check valve with all my manhandling of the pump, so I just put it back down in the well again. This time, I left 60psi of air compressed into the drop pipe so I could verify that it made it all the way to the bottom of the well without losing pressure. The pump reached the bottom without any problems and continued to show 60 psi.
After reconnecting everything, the problem returned. I again pressure tested the drop-pipe, and again it passed the test. In frustration I pulled the pressure gauge fitting from the end of the drop pipe while it was still in the well, and to my surprise the water level in the drop pipe (which had been close to the top) began to fall -- I think the small force of the pressure gauge being removed may have unseated the check valve on the pump. I went through a few more air pressure attempts, but the valve seemed to reseat itself and so it was again holding pressure. In every case when the lines were connected to the house, the problem would recur.
My working theory at this point was a bad check valve on the pump, specifically one that was being unseated by the torque of startup or shut down, and therefore was not able to hold back the water pressure as it should.
Today, I returned the pump to the plumbing supply store and they tested it. They couldn't find anything wrong with it, but they gave me a brass check valve to attach directly to the pump to "double up" the check valve. I installed it along with a short nipple to make sure the plastic valve on the pump didn't interfere at all physically with the brass valve.
Deep breath....
It doesn't make a difference -- somehow it is still happening. I noticed that it takes slightly longer for the water to all drain down the supply pipe than it used to, but it is essentially unchanged.
If it were the drop-pipe, I should not have been able to hold 60psi air in the pipe for over 5 minutes with no sign of any pressure drop. If it were the check valve on the pump, why didn't a second brass check valve help? If it were the lines to the house, how did they hold 20psi of air "pretty well" and why would I gain pressure quickly at the house, then lose it just as quickly? To say that I am confounded would be an understatement.
Can anyone help? Even if you don't know what is happening, can you give me a reasonable next step to try? I've thought about maybe installing another check valve just above the well cap, but I've also read it's not great to put a bunch of check valves in the system.
