Air Volume Control "AC100 American Granby" Question/Help

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JohnDutton

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This is the question I asked in another forum that no one seems to know the answer to. I asked if there was another forum to try and they said this one but "You could go to Terry Love's Forum and get lectured on a Cycle Stop Valve." lol But anyway I'll give it a shot. I cut and pasted it from there as follows....
"First I know nothing about these
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We have one of these on our well pump at the cottage. Hopefully you may have seen one before. American Granby AC100 Air Volume Control. We lost prime on the pump. We have needed to prime it on each visit this year. This is the first year it hasn't kept it's prime for the whole summer season. I doubt that's related to this but who knows. When the pump is working it seems to work fine with good pressure and no short cycling. The doodad in the picture is said to be an air volume control. At the top it screws onto a pipe on the water tank. The setup is a small pump setting on top of a tank in a pit. At the bottom of the AVC is a fitting and hose that goes from the AVC on the tank to the pump housing. Currently the ball in the AVC is at the top (sitting on top of water that's filled the AVC) and a small amount of water is coming out of the valve end at the top. I assume it's broken and not working or working and bleeding water? Anyone able to give me any advice on this? First time I've noticed water coming out of it. Not sure if it's doing what it's suppose to be doing or leaking. Maybe this picture will help. I waited a few hours to see if it would stabilize but it's currently still dripping. Thanks for any advice
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John"

1. well-part-air-charger-ac100.jpg
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Valveman

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Air volume control only adds air to the pressure tank to keep it from waterlogging and causing the pump to rapid cycle. Losing prime is because the check valve is not holding or you have a leak in the suction pipe. Where is your check valve?
 

JohnDutton

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Well I assume this is a very old system. We use it about 6 weeks or so in the summer. When it works it works great and the only real problem is getting it started. We have a pro who comes out and winterizes the house every year. If there's a check valve it's buried. I don't see anything like that up top. Or it's hidden in the suction pipe or something and doesn't look any different than the regular pipe. We gave up on the "pros" priming the pump. They don't listen to me and I've gotten pretty good at priming "this pump". Until this year we would prime the pump and even with the power off to it for weeks at a time it never lost prime. This year it needs to be primed every visit. A lot of this I blame on this just being a really old system and probably way past it's prime. But for a vacation home I'm not really motivated to spend a lot of money getting it replaced when I can get it going in 20 minutes or so. Anyway when I show up it usually takes about 5 gallons to get it going which seems like a lot to me. But I do get it going. I just keep adding water at the top and putting my hand over the fill until I start feeling pressure. The sound changes also when it starts to catch. Once it "catches" it's fine till we shut the power off it and go home for a few weeks. I guess these are the things I'm interested in.

1. Losing prime. I assume the check valve is just getting old and it's probably down deep in the ground. If I'm going to deal with that it's probably time to just get a modern set up. Bladder tank and all that. It's probably not completely gone but starting to go as it's fine as long as we're up here and using water.

2. AVC spitting water. I checked it the next day and it's no longer spitting water. I guess it found it's balance. I realize it's not suppose to spit water lol. I was wondering why it would do that? Perhaps the float ball wasn't quite seated well yet? I haven't been able to find information on how this specific valve works. Just interested. I realize it's suppose to fill the tank with air as needed. Would be nice if there was a little instruction flyer with it :)

3. I dump a lot of water getting it started, like 5 gallons of water, with a gallon or two going on the ground. Seems like 5 or 6 gallons of water is a LOT to prime this little pump. But if it works it works. I guessed it must be filling the entire tank (?) or suction pipe or something, but if that is what is happening it has great pressure and doesn't short cycle. Actually it never comes on unless we use waster. The kitchen light flickers a little when it starts so that's my indicator. Whatever is happening the pump seems to find it's balance once it's running and straightens it's self out quickly. The guy that primed it the first year we got the place took like hours to get it started and was all about us getting it replaced Adding like a cup of water at a time, putting the plug back in and sitting there for 5 minutes over and over. I was getting the impression he wasn't the best and not that good with old school well worn equipment. But we stopped calling him in the spring and the pump has been basically acting this same way for the next 8 years and works awesome once I get it started. Usually about 20 minutes from start to finish.

4. This spring we had a frozen pipe and didn't realize it. I should have known as the pump came up to pressure and shut off. But I'm learning along the way. So we called the dude out. So he came out and thawed it out. Torch on the pipe kinda thing down in the well. Well while he was down the there's a stem that comes out of the front of the pump that he just kept cranking on. I kept telling him that once the pump was running it's perfectly fine but he just kept turning it and nodding. So I'm kinda concerned what that was all about. I do know he want to sell me a new set up lol.

5. So to sum up I was wondering what would cause the AVC to spit water (at least for awhile) and what the hell that guy was cranking on like crazy and if that was something maybe he was a little too aggressive on. I can see giving something a quarter turn or something when it's been pumping fine but he seemed to be going way over the top for a tweak. That was on the actual pump body on the front and not any electrical control, etc.

Well anyone that has the patience to read through all that, bless you, and has any guesses especially about #5 I'd really appreciate hearing it :) Seems like a really basic system and as of the moment everything is up and working well as far as volume and pressure to the house. But I love learning about stuff. I have a feeling, in general, it's a really old pump and it's age is starting to show and normal wear is becoming an issue but I'll drag it out as long as possible. I hate replacing something that works. Bless ya all and have a great day! :)
 

LLigetfa

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There are essentially two types of AVC. One type lets surplus air out of a HP tank. That type needs a separate air maker that lets air in.

The other type which is what you have actually lets air in and so is the air maker. I suppose if it malfunctions, it might let too much air in but I doubt it. Maybe your water level is dropping too low for the pump to lift and the air maker provides the killing blow.

If that were my system, I would remove the AVC, stop up the ports, and install a bladder tank.
 

JohnDutton

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There are essentially two types of AVC. One type lets surplus air out of a HP tank. That type needs a separate air maker that lets air in.

The other type which is what you have actually lets air in and so is the air maker. I suppose if it malfunctions, it might let too much air in but I doubt it. Maybe your water level is dropping too low for the pump to lift and the air maker provides the killing blow.

If that were my system, I would remove the AVC, stop up the ports, and install a bladder tank.

Thanks! Under normal circumstance do bladder tanks require regular maintenance? I've heard people say they needed to add air to them etc. Or is it you just have to mess with them when there's a problem? I still wonder what he was cranking on. I've looked at pump diagrams and don't see anything it could have been. I'm thinking maybe it was some sort of drain he was checking because he thought maybe it was frozen inside the pump or something. I could see that as the problem was a frozen pipe. I'm close to understanding this lol. Next time I go down there I'm gonna try and get a name and numbers off it and see if there's any reference on the internet for it.
 

LLigetfa

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If the footvalve checkvalve doesn't hold, then the pump would keep cycling until it overheated and then stop. When it stops, all the water from the tank runs back into the well followed by the air charge. The air would cause the loss of prime. So unless there was a power failure or the pump went into thermal overload, you should not lose prime.

Then there is my far fetched theory that the water level dropped to low for the pump to pull water and the airmaker put it out of its misery.
 

Valveman

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Reading quickly I gather the only time it loses prime is when you are away? Meaning you only have to prime each time you show up? If that is the case, and since I do not see a check valve, I assume you have a leaking footvalve. I would replace the footvalve and all the suction pipe to the pump. And while you are at it a new jet pump with a little diaphragm tank would keep you from having to worry about the AVC or the age of the pump.
 
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