Air in tank

Users who are viewing this thread

bullheadpond

Member
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
NE Wisconsin
So I bought a drummond shallow well pump and 5 gal tank. The directions say the tanks bladder has been pressurized to 23 psi.
Can I safely add air to make it 28 psi or is 23 psi the limit.
Like most directions now a days they are really vague and don't tell you much.

Thank you.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,201
Reaction score
3,442
Points
113
Location
IL
So i bought a drummond shallow well pump and 5 gal tank. The directions say the tanks bladder has been pressurized to 23 psi.
Can i safely add air to make it 28 psi or is 23 psi the limit.
If the cut-in pressure is 30 psi, you don't want to raise the air precharge to 28 psi. It takes time for that pump to get pumping, and the tank must have enough water in reserve to supply water for a bit. If the precharge is too high, expect a pause in water pressure when you are using much water, and the pump starts. You may be OK raising the air pressure to 25 psi.

Raising to 28 would not damage anything.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
12,959
Reaction score
857
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
As long as you have a foot valve there is no delay in pumping with a jet pump and 28 PSI air is fine. Sometimes a check valve at the top of a sand point well will cause a few seconds of delay before the pump gets going and lower air pressure in the tank will help. Don't expect to do any irrigation with that Drummond pump. Look at the specs. That is one of the only pumps I know of that says "not for continuous duty". Now I don't know if you can run it 5 minutes or 20 minutes continuously, but "not for continuous duty" means it is a cheaply built pump.
 

bullheadpond

Member
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
NE Wisconsin
Hi you guys help me with a few questions in the past.
I am the guy with the Drumond pump. I have everything hooked up. After i got it primed which was no problem at all i had a few leaks at the union. Got those fixed. The pump seems to hold pressure overnight and during the day without kicking on when the water is off.
The problem i am having is that when i turn on the faucet water comes out fine for about 2-3 gallons, the pump kicks on around 30psi but then after a few seconds the water pressure drop stop zero. The pump runs and About 30 seconds later it starts pumping water again. Pump turns off at around 50 psi. Then it seems to work fine for as long as you keep using it . The next day it does the same thing. Also i did replace the check valve thinking that may be the problem but still doing the same thing.
Is this normal for a cheaper built pump or is there something I am missing? Is this what you guys meant by there may be a pause or delay before the pump gets going?
The water is clear as can be no sand or anything coming out.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
12,959
Reaction score
857
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
After time the water below the check valve is leaking out. You are lucky it picks up a prime on its own after 30 seconds, most don't. You have a leak below the check valve and this will continue until you fix the leak.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,201
Reaction score
3,442
Points
113
Location
IL
the pump kicks on around 30psi but then after a few seconds the water pressure drop stop zero.
Does the pump continue to draw current or hum during that zero-pressure time?
 

bullheadpond

Member
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
NE Wisconsin
Then is it having to draw up a prime.
Then is it having to draw up a prime.
Then is it having to draw up a prime.
Water comes out of the faucet when you first turn it on . After about 2gallons comes out the pump turns on. Then the water stops coming out and the pump is still running. Then the pressure gauge drops to zero. Pump is still running after 30 seconds or so the water starts coming out again . Then it works fine until the next day.
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
12,959
Reaction score
857
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
You are losing prime below the check valve, then it takes about 30 seconds to draw up a prime. Many pumps would not draw up a prime in this situation and would just run dry until they melted down.
 

bullheadpond

Member
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
NE Wisconsin
You are losing prime below the check valve, then it takes about 30 seconds to draw up a prime. Many pumps would not draw up a prime in this situation and would just run dry until they melted down.

Can you put a 3/4 " foot valve in a well and attach it to a 1 " pipe for suction to the pump? Or does the foot valve have to be the same size as the pipe going down the well?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,201
Reaction score
3,442
Points
113
Location
IL
On a different thread, bullheadpond you said you have a 1-1/4 sand point.

So, can you get a 1 inch pipe (1.315 OD) into a 1-1/4 pipe (1.38 ID)? I think you maybe can. The problem, it seems to me, is to couple on to a reducer without increasing diameter. Maybe with a one-piece steel pipe and weld onto a 3/4.

3/4 all of the way may be more practical. You would also need to check the OD of that 3/4 inch valve.
 

bullheadpond

Member
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
NE Wisconsin
On a different thread, bullheadpond you said you have a 1-1/4 sand point.

So, can you get a 1 inch pipe (1.315 OD) into a 1-1/4 pipe (1.38 ID)? I think you maybe can. The problem, it seems to me, is to couple on to a reducer without increasing diameter. Maybe with a one-piece steel pipe and weld onto a 3/4.

3/4 all of the way may be more practical. You would also need to check the OD of that 3/4 inch valve.

Maybe i should just do the one inch pipe down the 1 1/4 inch pipe and put the check valve at the top of the pipe before it goes into the pump?
Should still work right?
 

bullheadpond

Member
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
NE Wisconsin
Maybe i should just do the one inch pipe down the 1 1/4 inch pipe and put the check valve at the top of the pipe before it goes into the pump?
Should still work right?
or
can i do the 3/4 all the way down the 1 1/4 inch pipe then go into the pump? the pump has a one inch inlet. Any for seen problems with either of these options? Wasn't sure if the 3/4 inch pipe would be too small for the pumps suction?
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,201
Reaction score
3,442
Points
113
Location
IL
Maybe i should just do the one inch pipe down the 1 1/4 inch pipe and put the check valve at the top of the pipe before it goes into the pump?
Should still work right?
That should work. That is a more common way than putting a foot valve into a a sand point pipe. I think a one-piece plastic pipe would be better, because you cannot accommodate a regular coupling. If you use two pieces, you will need an inside coupling.. You can more easily get a long piece of polyethylene pipe. Anyway, with the topside check valve, you only have one critical long-term vacuum connection before the check valve.

On the other hand, can't you put a leak-free connection right on the sand point pipe? A tee at the top lets you sanitize. Then the check valve goes into the side port of the tee. A plug goes on top of the tee. So you have 3 critical connections -- the 3 ports of the tee, if your check valve has a male thread that goes right into the tee. You would use both PTFE and pipe dope both. Maybe the vertical pipe is known to leak, and that is what motivates putting the smaller pipe down the 1-1/4 pipe.

I was thinking about maybe having some poly with a 3/4 inch foot valve selected to have a small-enough od. Rather than using hose clamps to connect to something, you would run the 3/4 od male output of the foot valve (maybe with a nipple to get that) into the end of the poly. Then run multiple turns of stainless steel wire around the outside of the poly to provide compression, but to distribute that force to not cause the wire to cut into the poly..

I am just thinking. I have not done anything like this, and have never worked with a sand point.

So can you find a 3/4 foot valve that can fit inside a 1-1/4 pipe?
 

bullheadpond

Member
Messages
50
Reaction score
0
Points
6
Location
NE Wisconsin
no idea. on the 3/4 " foot valve.
Not sure what you mean by leak proof connection at the sand point. It's driven into the ground. the pipe must have a very small leak in the ground letting it loose prime overnight. That's why I thought about just putting a pipe inside of a pipe. Its just for outside water. . I was thinking maybe 1" pex pipe down the the galvanized pipe and a shark bite elbow at the top then check valve , then 1 inch union ,then in to the pump?
 

Valveman

Cary Austin
Staff member
Messages
12,959
Reaction score
857
Points
113
Location
Lubbock, Texas
Website
cyclestopvalves.com
A short piece of 3/4 and a 3/4 foot valve will work. You are limited to less than 10 GPM that way, but you should never use that much anyway. Pex has those insert fittings which make it act like one size smaller pipe. I would use poly or PVC.
 

Reach4

Well-Known Member
Messages
34,201
Reaction score
3,442
Points
113
Location
IL
Not sure what you mean by leak proof connection at the sand point. It's driven into the ground. the pipe must have a very small leak in the ground letting it loose prime overnight.
That would be a good reason for a plastic pipe down the steel pipe.

Are you confident there is no above-ground vacuum leak while pumping water successfully (pump is running)? Did you slather all 15 joints, or whatever number there are, with shaving cream to test for a vacuum leak?
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks