Air Gap recommendation for softener

[Brecchi]

Hey guys, I am looking to buy an air gap fitting to add to the Fleck 5600SXT that a local water softening company will be installing. I have 2 lengthy threads on the details, which a lot of you have contributed to, but its been a while since I've posted and I figured I'd start a new thread for this final question. I'll post the links to my threads below.

Here are pics of my setup. Ive seen a couple of generic air gaps for sale online, but I'm not sure about specifics like diameter, size etc. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction based on the pics.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Reach4]

Your words ask about an air gap. But your photos seem like you might be asking for something else, such as a suggestion for how to put in a standpipe. An air gap need a place to drain into.

WV uses IPC, so an AAV would be OK. You may be thinking of putting a standpipe on that long horizontal pipe. What is that pipe carrying?

At what level does the drainage leave the house for the sewer or septic?

The pipe out of the WH T&P relief valve should go to about 6 inches above the floor.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Brecchi]

Hey Reach4 - I'm pretty new to all of this so you are correct in that I don't really know the proper way to ask about this. Basically, the company I'm using usually puts in a check valve in these installs, but after much research I asked if he would put in an air gap. He agreed, but I'll need to source the part myself and I'm not sure about what I need to properly get this done. Whether or not this includes a standpipe or anything else is what I'm trying to figure out from the extensive knowledge that you and other members likely have.

I think I need a real basic intro/explanation to the way this would work with my system as well as what parts to buy. Apologies for the limited knowledge on my own system, I'd be happy to check into anything which would make getting answers easier for you all.

AFAIK, the long horizontal pipe is drainage, it disappears into the adjoining wall which is a bathroom and likely connected to everything that drains in there. I wish I knew at what level the drainage leaves the house for septic but I'm not sure. Its our first house and we've been here less than a year. I just know where the access to the septic is, which is well above the drainage line.

Also, thanks for the heads up regarding the relief valve. I've been made aware of this and plan to address it in the future.

 

[LLigetfa]

AFAIK, the long horizontal pipe is drainage, it disappears into the adjoining wall which is a bathroom and likely connected to everything that drains in there.

If you mean the wall on the left, that pipe is sloped towards it and turns down, so it would not drain anything on the left. It might drain something to the right of the pressure tank. It is unlikely to be a proper vent as it is so low since a vent needs to be above the flood rim of any fixture it vents. That said, you need to figure out what it is before dumping water into it.

 

[Reach4]

1. Do you have a sump pump, and do you know where that water goes?
2. Do you have a sealed septic pit, in the basement floor, with a pump in it?
3. Do you have a floor drain in the area?
4. Do you have a washing machine in the area? Where that washing machine drains to is often a good place to drain the softener. And yes, the gadget that helps share may be an air gap.

AFAIK, the long horizontal pipe is drainage, it disappears into the adjoining wall which is a bathroom and likely connected to everything that drains in there.

If the pipe carried all of the waste of a bathroom by gravity, it would probably be 3-inch (which is 3.5 inch OD). The exception is if there is a grinder pump upstream of the pipe we see.

Regarding the big drain pipe to the septic, do you see a pipe going through the wall closest to the septic cleanout?

 

[Brecchi]

Reach4, I have a couple of answers, and I can find out the rest:

- Not sure about a sump pump or exactly where the sealed septic pit is located. The access pipe is actually between our front door and detached garage, one floor up and not very close to the utilities room in the basement. I'll see if I can find out more info from our homeowners documents from when we moved in.

-There is no floor drain in the area, but there is a hookup for a washer and dryer. No appliances in there yet, the precious owners must have had those in there at some point. The basement doubles as a full in-law suite, our washer and dryer are upstairs on the first floor.

I am not sure how helpful this limited info is but I can get back to you after I do some more research. I'm in contact with the previous owner so he might be able to shed some light on a few things.

 

[Reach4]

The access pipe is actually between our front door and detached garage, one floor up and not very close to the utilities room in the basement.

What is the access pipe? Where the washing machine drains?

I was asking how high the big pipe, going to the septic tank thru the basement wall, was above the basement floor. If you are on a sloped lot, the big pipe to the septic tank could be under the basement floor.

 

[Jeff H Young]

mostly an airgap is used at a stand pipe if you can fasten the discharge solidly where there is a 1 inch gap or buy a factory made one
Actualy that 2 inch horizontal with a santee on its back looks like a vent possibly for a p trap and stand pipe? The backflush waste water can go up to first floor likely laundry sink or wash mach stand pipe . Wouldnt want my t and p going in basement floor if you could avoid it

 

[Brecchi]

Hi Guys - the truth is I need to do a bit more homework on my own place. IE, where the septic cleanout is and various other details. I'll write back shortly when I have some answers and I'll add some pics as well.

 

[Brecchi]

What is the access pipe? Where the washing machine drains?

I was asking how high the big pipe, going to the septic tank thru the basement wall, was above the basement floor. If you are on a sloped lot, the big pipe to the septic tank could be under the basement floor.

By access pipe, I mean where I'm assuming a septic truck would pull up and attach a large hose to pump out the tank. Its sticking up out of the ground on the side of my driveway which is a floor above the utility room, and some distance away. I need to find out the location of the tank, and many other things apparently. Although there is a washing machine hookup in the room, there is no floor drain as far as I can see.

Not sure if this helps, but our current washing machine room is located directly above the utility room in the pics. I believe it used to be a full bathroom, with the bathtub removed and a washer/dryer put in its place. There is a toilet and bathroom sink in the room, no utility sink. I can find a pic if that would help in some way. I think the fact that the basement was converted to a full in-law suite with a bathroom and kitchen, with the main house also being renovated to make up for this (washer/dryer, extra bathroom) makes things a bit harder to figure out.

I've attached another couple of pictures below which includes the larger pipes going up into the ceiling. You can also see the washing machine hookups and 240v power.

Jeff, I'm such a newbie that I don't understand most of what you wrote. Although I can see where the pipes are located in the room, I don't know where they go or how they all work together.

I don't know what a santee is, I wish I had the vocabulary to understand everyone more clearly. The extent of what I know at this point is that I've got a Fleck system on order that will work for me, and a reputable local company willing to install it. They are happy to install an airgap instead of a check valve for safety. I'm sure the plumber will know how to hook it up, and I'd very much like to learn how it all works but mostly I need to know what to buy. I plan to find out what each pipe does and where it all goes, as well as the location and pipe-entry points to the septic tank if I can.

 

[Reach4]

1. What is on the other side of the wall at C and Q?
2. Does there look like there is a place near B for a washing machine (WM) to drain to?
3. Is H from the standpipe (where the WM drains to) for the upstairs laundry?
4. What is U J coming from?
5. Is L connected to M?

Santee is short for sanitary tee.

See https://www.co.lincoln.or.us/sites/..._-_helpful_hints_residential_construction.pdf

A santee (san tee) is shown on page 2.
Don't worry that the pipes in that PDF are black and yours are white. It is a regional difference and they function the same.

https://airgap.com/product-category/water-softener-airgaps/ shows some softener air gaps that are meant to share a standpipe with a WM and a softener.

 

[Brecchi]

Reach4, thanks for labeling the photo, its super helpful:

1. The other side of the wall is a bathroom. I've attached a photo. Any piping going into that room is completely sealed behind the wall.

2. I can't see a drain at all near the washing machine hookup. I've attached a picture of the wall, but this has me a bit stumped.

3. I took a picture of the upstairs laundry drain. Looks like its 2.5 inches. Not sure if that helps.

4. Sorry, but I don't see a U on the diagram?

5. L is connected to M. I've attached a pic.

I also attached some extra pics for various angles in case that's helpful. I realized that I was talking about my well access pipe in previous posts, not the septic access. I contacted the former owner of the house and he showed me where the septic access plate is. Its pretty far from the house, down a fairly steep hill. Pics attached.

The former owner is a friend, and he will likely come by soon to answer any other questions I may have. I just need to know what to ask.

Thanks for the santee explanation. I assume that's where waste water drains in from a specific place to the main drainage line.

Appreciate links to an air gap. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of all of this and order exactly what I need.

Happy to provide any more info, I'm actually enjoying this learning process.

-Ben

 

[Brecchi]

Septic cover and proximity to the house. You can see the cover on the lower left hand side of the second pic. That gap at the top has me a bit worried, maybe I should cover it completely. Apologies for the low resolution, I had trouble uploading these for some reason.

 

[Reach4]

1. The other side of the wall is a bathroom. I've attached a photo. Any piping going into that room is completely sealed behind the wall.

You might be able to drill thru the back of the lavatory cabinet, and bring the softener backwash into a branch tailpiece there.

3. I took a picture of the upstairs laundry drain. Looks like its 2.5 inches. Not sure if that helps.

You might be able to run the softener drain upstairs and join the upstairs standpipe. There is some pressure drop with a raise in elevation, but you may have plenty of pressure.

4. Sorry, but I don't see a U on the diagram?

I meant J. I have corrected my post above. J may be a vent line, venting the santee at the bottom of L. Where is the third port of the santee coming from from the right from behind the pressure tank?

 

[Brecchi]

I've attached a couple more pictures of the bathroom (IMG 1628 and 1629), just so you can see the minimal amount of visible piping.

IMG 1627 is a close up of J, Img 1630, 1631 and 1632 are where everything joins behind the water heater.

You can see that J has purple colored adhesive joining the pieces together so hopefully what makes it easy to follow.

Is it safe to say that the large pipe on the upper left side of the room is for drainage, and would that be where I would want to attach an air gap?

I can also take a video and attach, although I've been having some trouble with attaching pictures that the website deems too large.

Aside from the air gap itself, have I provided enough info to know what types of fittings/attachments I'll need?

 

[Reach4]

I am thinking you maybe put in a branch tailpiece under that basement lavatory. Feed that thru the wall. There is more than one kind.

I guess there should be some kind of air gap on the way to the branch tailpiece.

A softener with a 54x10 tank would usually have a 2. 4 gpm backwash. So is that branch tailpiece and an air gap be able to handle that. I think so, but I am not sure.

Regarding purple, that is the primer that is used during cementing pvc. So I expect all of your drain pipes to have that.

 

[Brecchi]

If that ends up being the best place to install, do you have a recommendation for a specific part and fittngs?

 

[John Gayewski]

 

[John Gayewski]

You will need to verify that the upper pipe is a vent.

 

[Brecchi]

Thanks John, I'll do that. The hooked part coming off is the air gap I assume? Thanks for the diagram, I'll have to figure out all of the PVC parts and fittings this will entail, as well as the air gap itself to buy.

Any particular reason its better to go down to the bottom pipe rather than up at the top at the other pipe going through the left wall?