Adjusting 15 year old black steel gas pipe

[Jandrewstein]

I'm installing a new water heater which is a little larger diameter. Everything is currently hard-piped and I'd like to keep it that way. The 1/2" black steel gas line will probably not line up, so I'm looking to modify it. It drops at least 10' from the ceiling where there are a couple bends. If I could tighten one of those joints it would push out the entire pipe drop which might help to line it up with the new water heater.

I'm not all that familiar working with black steel pipe. My concern is that even a small tightening turn in a 15 year old connection might mess up the seal. It looks like white pipe dope was used at all joints. I can't tell if Teflon tape was also used.

It's also located before the gas shutoff, so I would have to find the master shutoff if there is any concern about causing a leak (which is at the meter -- this is a townhouse).

So what do people think about tightening a 15 year old 1/2" black steel gas supply line about 1/8 of a turn without redoing it entirely?

Alternatively, there may be enough flex in the 10-foot length of pipe to accommodate the larger diameter of the new water heater. I won't know that until I try to fit it up. I don't have good intuition with this type of pipe.

 

[ImOld]

Being in a townhome implies there are other attached residences. I'm having a tough time picturing where everything is as well as the 1/8 turn. How about a picture or two.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I would do it and then leak test it, knowing that if there is any leak you will have to start over with every joint from that point on.

 

[Mliu]

Realize that when you rotate the pipe, the horizontal extension to the water heater will not simply move laterally away from where it was. It will move in an arc.

If you try "bending" the 10' pipe away, your horizontal extension will likely no longer be parallel to the floor. It will probably be angled.

Both of these changes in geometry will probably make it impossible to mate the old pipe up to the new heater.

Twisting the joint to make it tighter not only risks a leak, but could split the fitting. Flexing the 10' pipe will put stress on the new water heater's gas control (which is typically made of a soft alloy).

Your best solution is to forget about hard piping the gas line and install a CSST connector between the black iron pipe and the heater gas control.

 

[Jandrewstein]

Thanks, all! I attached some images.

I'm aware of the geometrical implications. I already know that i'll need to swap a vertical and horizontal pipe at sediment trap because the new water heater control valve is higher and rotating the drop will change the distance to it. That's not a big deal since it's adding new pipe and it's after the shut-off.

Another way of doing this is to add a couple bends just after the shut off, to push our the vertical drop. But it would be a lot simpler if i could just rotate the whole thing enough to get me another 1"-2" away from the side of the water heater. I have a photo showing the dimension from edge of existing water heater to pipe. The new water heater will be about 1.75" closer, so almost directly against the pipe as it is now. And this is all assuming that I'm keeping it centered where it is now, because I would like to keep the water inlet and outlet were they area and just cut them to the required length (the new heater is also just a few inches taller).

 

[Reach4]

I think you want to swing that high horizontal pipe in the direction of the orange arrow. This will need the two circled joints to tighten 1/8 of a turn between them (1/8 for either, or each turns 1/16, or some other combo). I doubt that would be a problem. I am not a plumber.

 

[Dj2]

Exactly as Reach4 said.
Do you have your own gas meter? If yes:
- Turn gas off at the meter.
- Disconnect at the union.
- With a pipe wrench rotate the elbow (lower yellow circle) 1/8".
- This will require all new connections to the gas valve and maybe repositioning the WH from the union to the gas valve.
Caution: If you have doubts, don't do it, call a plumber.
Another option would be to replace the nipple between the two elbows with a longer one. Again you will have to re-do the piping between the union and the gas valve.
Remember gas pipes are not toys.

 

[Jandrewstein]

Thanks, guys! That's exactly what I had in mind. My concern is the possibility of a leak resulting from tightening the joints at the two yellow circled locations. It seems like a small amount of tightening would not compromise the pipes or fittings themselves, but since the sealant has been in place for so many years, I worry about disturbing it. I was hoping to have some people with experience chime and tell me one way or another if this seems reasonable. I could always swap out the pipe between entirely like dj2 said, but if I can avoid that, it would be helpful.

 

[Jadnashua]

Some of the pipe dopes stay flexible, some don't as much, and rotating things could create a leak. Test each connection carefully. What would work better, is to dismantle the pieces you need to move, wire brush the old crud off, and add new pipe dope. A couple of wrenches to hold the old part that will remain while removing the bits that need to be moved is called for.

FWIW, where I live, doing this in a multifamily dwelling requires a licensed plumber, per the condo rules and local ordinances. Also, when replacing a WH, the new one must also include a tempering valve per our local city ordinances. You might want to check, as just replacing as it was may no longer meet your local codes.

 

[Jandrewstein]

I believe the pipe dope that was used is the kind that remains flexible, but over 15 years I imagine it might get a little comfortable and its position and not take kindly to being twisted.

If this was all after a water heater shut off I would be a little less concerned about it. But since I have to turn the gas off to the entire house, if something goes wrong or it's going to take me a long time I will be without heat as well as hot water.

This is a very small condo association with no such requirements. I'm not familiar with any code requiring a mixing valve unless I intend to keep the water heated above 140 degrees. I looked into whether or not it was a good idea to have one and decided that it was unnecessary, and just another possible point of failure.

 

[Reach4]

This is a very small condo association with no such requirements. I'm not familiar with any code requiring a mixing valve unless I intend to keep the water heated above 140 degrees. I looked into whether or not it was a good idea to have one and decided that it was unnecessary, and just another possible point of failure.

The state requires a permit and inspection. Will you do that?

 

[ImOld]

The state requires a permit and inspection. Will you do that?

This should be a site signature.

I would hazard a guess that close to 100% of the projects presented on this site have town, county or state legal requirements for a permit and inspection for all or a portion of the job. People have closed their minds on the legalities. They all have convinced themselves that a homeowner may do anything to THEIR castle, thanks to the availability of just about anything now at the retail level.

It just makes me nervous when a homeowners error in judgement may impact other homes that are part of the same structure.

 

[Reach4]

I would hazard a guess that close to 100% of the projects presented on this site have town, county or state legal requirements for a permit and inspection for all or a portion of the job. People have closed their minds on the legalities. They all have convinced themselves that a homeowner may do anything to THEIR castle, thanks to the availability of just about anything now at the retail level.

I would consider doing some things that officially need a permit without a permit. Suppose you lived in a place that required a permit or license to change a toilet fill valve. What would you do?

Suppose you wanted to change your water heater, and did not want to add a mixing valve...

Suppose you had a failed breaker or outlet, and your area required a permit or license to swap that out...

Suppose your area wanted you to have a GFCI breaker on your sump pump?

Suppose Terry wanted to cut down a 12 ft tree in his back yard because he did not like it. Would you think he is too much of an anarchist if he did that without a permit?

 

[ImOld]

Boeing did their own 'homeowner' inspections and two 727 airplanes and 600 people were destroyed.

No more 'homeowner' inspections for Boeing.

Condo owner did their own inspection...

 

[Jandrewstein]

The state requires a permit and inspection. Will you do that?

My response was regarding the mixing/tempering valve requirement (this is a 50 gallon water heater serving a single family unit -- no recirculating pump) and our condo association requirements (the bylaws have no such requirement). I'm well aware of permit and inspection requirements in the city of Detroit. I came here for a question about gas line piping, not to be grilled on permitting.

 

[Reach4]

My response was regarding the mixing/tempering valve requirement (this is a 50 gallon water heater serving a single family unit -- no recirculating pump) and our condo association requirements (the bylaws have no such requirement). I'm well aware of permit and inspection requirements in the city of Detroit. I came here for a question about gas line piping, not to be grilled on permitting.

You thought I was grilling you?

 

[Jandrewstein]

I'm talking about the last few comments including comparing residential water heater replacement to 727 maintenance.

 

[Mliu]

OP, if you live in a single-family house and you make unpermitted and uninspected modifications to your gas lines that result in your house going up in smoke, that's one thing. Doing the same in a townhouse, where you are jeopardizing not only the lives of your family but also the lives of your neighbors, that is quite another. In that respect, the Boing 737 MAX analogy is quite relevant.

 

[Dj2]

B727? They retired 20 years ago.

 

[Plumbs]

OP, if you live in a single-family house and you make unpermitted and uninspected modifications to your gas lines that result in your house going up in smoke, that's one thing. Doing the same in a townhouse, where you are jeopardizing not only the lives of your family but also the lives of your neighbors, that is quite another. In that respect, the Boing 737 MAX analogy is quite relevant.

Exactly this. If you don't know what you are doing with gas pipe, which the op obviously doesn't, is it really worth saving a few dollars on a flex line? Heck, just put in the water heater and have a licensed plumber do the final gas hook up if you're trying to save money.

If you lived alone on several acres with no other houses nearby it's a whole different scenario. Then I'd say have at it and let Darwinism take its course.

I don't have a problem with people messing with their own plumbing but when it comes to gas I'd say err on the side of caution. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to houses for unrelated issues only to smell a gas leak from some hack trying their hand at gas piping.