5600 sxt softener problems

[Matthew Kane]

About 3 months or so ago we took out our old culligan unit (over 25 years old) and I replaced it with a 48000 grain fleck sxt5600 softener. When I tested our water, it was 12 on the hardness but quite unsure about iron. While we do have iron, bypassing the softener the water is clear and tastes a little like iron but not terrible. I'm having issues everytime the softener regenerates we have orange water and it takes some time for it to clear up. Once it clears, its wonderful (crystal clear and tastes just fine). Since I'm not a water softener expert I will let you know my settings and see if anything looks off.

DF-GAL
VT-df16
CT-FD
NT-1
C-48
H-25
RS-SF
SF-15
DO-15
RT-2:00
BW-10
BD-60
RR-12
BF-10
FM-P0.7

I regenerated an extra cycle with iron out....but nothing changed. At this point I'm unsure of what's going on.

 

[Reach4]

You should get your water tested with a lab test. For H, increase the measured hardness by 20% plus, at a minimum, increase the hardness by 5 grains for each ppm of iron. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/fleck-9100-sxt-programming-settings.60651/#post-450189

Your softener may already be clogged with iron. Make sure the brine is all sucked out about 25% of the way into the brine draw (BD) cycle. I would clean the injector screen and injector. Use what you see to decide how often that is needed. Try to see how long into your 60 minute BD cycle the brine is all sucked out.

For now, maybe also add 1/4 cup of IO to your brine tank sprinkled each bag of salt.

Best would be to put a backwashing iron filter in front of the softener. It looks like another softener.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

While 1.5 ft3 of new softener resin will have a total capacity of 48,000 grains, that is not the usable capacity programmed as 'C'.

The capacity setting will need to be reduced to typically 31.5K or 36K grains which will normally use an efficient 9 or 12 lbs of salt respectively per regeneration cycle. As you suspect an iron issue, the Capacity, salt dose and/or regeneration frequency may need to be further adjusted depending on the specific amount of iron, unless the iron is removed prior to the softener.

Well water lab testing is a necessity prior to choosing any treatment methods, and periodic testing thereafter is advisable. When you own a private well, you become your own municipality and are fully responsible for the water safety and treatment methods. National Labs WaterCheck is often recommended on this forum. http://watercheck.myshopify.com/?aff=5

Assuming your softener is equipped with a 0.5 gpm BLFC (refill rate control for brine tank), then your 10 minute BF setting will be adding 5 gallons water into the brine tank, which is adequate to dissolve only 15 lbs salt each cycle. That amount is sufficient to regenerate at best, 39K capacity (see resin capacity chart below).

As your resin's capacity will have been exhausted, regeneration with 30 lbs salt will now be required to restore the resin. As 5 gallons water is already in the brine tank, add an additional 5 gallons with a bucket, pouring it down inside the brine well (3" plastic tube containing the safety float). Wait approx 1 hour for additional salt to dissolve, then initiate a manual regeneration.


https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/resin-chart-jpg.53316/

 

[Reach4]

While 1.5 ft3 of new softener resin will have a total capacity of 48,000 grains, that is not the usable capacity programmed as 'C'.

I missed that.

 

[Matthew Kane]

Thank you! I added iron out to the salt tank. I will reduce my capacity and I will raise the hardness to see if it improves. I'll add 5 gallons to the tube and I'll let you know how it goes. Everything else looks okay then?

 

[Reach4]

Try to see how long into your 60 minute BD cycle the brine is all sucked out.

I don't know if converting to a dual backwash would help. You would need some different parts to do that.

 

[Bannerman]

I will raise the hardness to see if it improves

You already programmed the hardness 2X higher than the hardness amount tested. Until a comprehensive lab test is performed, you really won't know a compensated hardness setting that will be appropriate. While each 1 ppm iron will consume capacity equivalent to 85.5 ppm hardness (=5 grains per gallon), there may also be other competing ions present such as manganese which could be also consuming capacity. Water pH will also influence matters.

A major issue is your current Capacity and salt setting as too much capacity was consumed and is not being regenerated.

Recommend verifying the BLFC rate which is normally indicated on a label located nearby to the brine line.

 

[Matthew Kane]

In our area we have iron but it's low. I will try to get a better test done to see where we stand. I'm 35 minutes into the brine draw and it's almost out of brine. Where the brine tube is...it says .5gpm 1.5 lb salt minimum. The injector number is 1 with a 2.4 gpm flow. I suspected that I wasnt regenerating enough and that the iron / minerals were accumulating in the softener.

 

[Reach4]

In our area we have iron but it's low. I will try to get a better test done to see where we stand. I'm 35 minutes into the brine draw and it's almost out of brine. Where the brine tube is...it says .5gpm 1.5 lb salt minimum. The injector number is 1 with a 2.4 gpm flow. I suspected that I wasnt regenerating enough and that the iron / minerals were accumulating in the softener.

Yes, but your white #1 injector would be expected to have drawn all of the brine in about 16 minutes. While those expected times are not that precise, you might consider cleaning the injector and injector screen. Deposits there may have been slowing the brine draw. Nothing wrong with a 22 minute brine draw if the BD is set long enough. I just suggest that may point you to a need for cleaning. I am suspecting and hoping that has been why the first water after the softener was put back into service was degraded. (EDIT: I am not sure how I made the mistake, but I was somehow thinking that Matthew had named something like 20 or 21 minutes. Clearly he had said 35. That makes cleaning the injector and screen more important I think)

Usually you will have the BD time about 3.5 to 4x the time to draw the brine. So you might want to raise BD to 80 or 90. That will let the slow rinse (the time after the brine is drawn until the end of BD) have enough time to rinse out the brine and the iron that was pulled from the resin.

The 2.4 gpm is your DLFC, and not your injector.

 

[Matthew Kane]

I will take your advise and remove, clean and raise the brine draw. Hopefully I can get this figured out. Initially I used the settings that came with the softener...obviously not correct. I check both the screen on the brine line and the screen below. While there obvious signs of iron, nothing was plugged.

 

[Bannerman]

Where the brine tube is...it says .5gpm 1.5 lb salt minimum.

That is not 'minimum', but means per minute. As each 1 gallon entering the brine tank will dissolve 3 lbs salt, then a 0.5 gpm BLFC flow rate will result in 1.5 lbs salt dissolved for each 1 minute of BF.

In our area we have iron but it's low.

The iron quantity is not measured by area but by testing your water specifically. Your neighbour's well chemistry may be similar, or maybe vastly different than yours depending on the underground aquifer feeding each well.

While there obvious signs of iron, nothing was plugged.

Iron may be present in various forms with clear water iron (ferrous) being the type most people refer to when stating iron in well water and removal with a softener. Ferrous iron may not necessarily result in plugging, but without appropriate ongoing periodic maintenance, will typically accumulate on softener resin which can impair the resin's ability to remove hardness and additional iron.

While a softener may be utilized to remove iron, it is generally advisable to utilize a dedicated iron treatment system when the iron quantity exceeds a specific amount due to inefficiencies in removing iron with a softener. The specific amount can vary depending on water chemistry.

 

[Bannerman]

I'm 35 minutes into the brine draw and it's almost out of brine.

Is that 35 minutes to draw your initial 5 gallons (15 lbs) brine, or to draw 30 lbs after adding the additional 5 gallons (10 gallons total for 30 lbs salt) recommended earlier to restore resin capacity?

 

[Matthew Kane]

Is that 35 minutes to draw your initial 5 gallons (15 lbs) brine, or to draw 30 lbs after adding the additional 5 gallons (10 gallons total for 30 lbs salt) recommended earlier to restore resin capacity?

Honestly, I could only put a gallon of water in the tube so the water was high. Once it regenerated the water was much lower. Not sure what was going on. It looked like there was much more than 5 gallons of water.

 

[Bannerman]

I could only put a gallon of water in the tube so the water was high.

It seems that regeneration took place using more than the usual quantity of brine which would provide a reason for the excessive time (35 minutes) needed to draw all of the brine from the brine tank.

Once it regenerated the water was much lower.

If the BF time setting had been reduced from the initial 10 minutes, as would be required for the 9 or 12 lbs salt settings previously recommended, that would explain why there would be a lower fluid height after regeneration. Perhaps you are implying you didn't change the BF setting which is the reason for your confusion with why there is now less fluid in the brine tank?

 

[Matthew Kane]

It seems that regeneration took place using more than the usual quantity of brine which would provide a reason for the excessive time (35 minutes) needed to draw all of the brine from the brine tank.
I may have. I can do a ton of different things, but a softener is almost too much for me.

If the BF time setting had been reduced from the initial 10 minutes, as would be required for the 9 or 12 lbs salt settings previously recommended, that would explain why there would be a lower fluid height after regeneration. Perhaps you are implying you didn't change the BF setting which is the reason for your confusion with why there is now less fluid in the brine tank?

 

[Bannerman]

I can do a ton of different things, but a softener is almost too much for me.

I don't follow. We are attempting to assist you but as we are not there to observe for ourselves, we need to rely on you to provide clarification including telling us when you make settings changes or perform procedures.

Reach4 was attempting to determine if the Brine Draw setting needed to be altered since the BD setting is normally 4X the amount of time needed to draw the usual amount of the brine from the brine tank. Although you said ~35 minutes was needed, we didn't know if the brine quantity was the usual amount, or if you had already placed additional water in the brine tank with a bucket as recommended earlier, which of course would take longer to draw.

As you said there is now less water in the brine tank, we don't know if you had already reduced the BF time and if so, what that setting was changed to. If no setting change was made, maybe the softener had been refilling the tank with too much water previously, or too little this time which could signify there is a problem with the softener's operation which would then need to be investigated.

 

[Matthew Kane]

I don't follow. We are attempting to assist you but as we are not there to observe for ourselves, we need to rely on you to provide clarification including telling us when you make settings changes or perform procedures.

Reach4 was attempting to determine if the Brine Draw setting needed to be altered since the BD setting is normally 4X the amount of time needed to draw the usual amount of the brine from the brine tank. Although you said ~35 minutes was needed, we didn't know if the brine quantity was the usual amount, or if you had already placed additional water in the brine tank with a bucket as recommended earlier, which of course would take longer to draw.

As you said there is now less water in the brine tank, we don't know if you had already reduced the BF time and if so, what that setting was changed to. If no setting change was made, maybe the softener had been refilling the tank with too much water previously, or too little this time which could signify there is a problem with the softener's operation which would then need to be investigated.

I fully understand the help and appreciate it. I had a forum member instant message me and is working with me. Hopefully I can get this figured out....but it I will need to get a water test done so I am not guessing.