32yr old softener -options?

[NameTaken2]

Very hard municipal water: 320mg/l (18.7gpg) hardness
32,000 grain softener
AUTOTROL 1550-TC (‘155’) Control System
Regen settings: every 3 days at 7lb salt
Resin replaced 2001.
2 bath home, 2 inhabitants. (System and settings from before empty nest)
Salt: approx (35) 40lb bags annually ($200) -seems like a lot of salt for the settings.

The Autotrol 155 developed a slow leak: Options = rebuild (parts @$100) or replace.
Based on 32yr being beyond expected 20-30yr life, considering replacement:
$252 for 255 Upper Valve Module w/Timer Assembly AP4001226 (Autotrol K-5 upper valve body and timer assembly)
Q's:
Replace everything while I'm at it, or just the valve body/timer?
Appears a 20,000 grain unit could now be adequate, and a demand-initiated softener may only need (1) 40-pound bag of salt every 6–8 weeks with a regen every 5-10 days(?) That's far less salt than now.

Was considering bypassing the unit to determine impact the hard water has, then possibly leave bypassed.
Apparently this degree of hardness is generally considered to require a softener (ie: bypass = bad idea).

Appreciate the trouble-free long-life this softener has provided, and goal is same going forward.

Any feedback regarding best option?

Thanks for your time!

 

[Reach4]

If you get a new softener, you would probably want to get a "48000 grain" model (1.5 cuft of 10% crosslinked resin).

For the current softener, you could try setting the regen to every 6 days.

What is this leak?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[NameTaken2]

If you get a new softener, you would probably want to get a "48000 grain" model (1.5 cuft of 10% crosslinked resin).

For the current softener, you could try setting the regen to every 6 days.

What is this leak?

Reach4, thanks for your reply-
Your recommendation for a 48oooo grain model surprised me -the current 32000 grain softener was for family of four, and now only two and info found online indicated a 20,000 grain would be adequate -(?)

Leak is from valve control body: expect flapper valve discs need to be replaced and since this Autotrol 155 is a 32yr old dinosaur and new tech is more efficient, consider replacement over repair as best option.

 

[Reach4]

Leak is from valve control body: expect flapper valve discs need to be replaced

Flappers could cause leaking out the drain or into the brine tank, but not out of the housing and onto the floor.

consider replacement over repair as best option.

I certainly would not want to talk you out of that.

I fairly recently replaced a similar softener when the timer failed to work for the second time. The old softener would make a loud sound during backwash also, but that was not the cause of getting rid of it. I got a Fleck 5810-based system. It is definitely more salt-efficient.

1 cuft is enough. If the space matters much, consider that. A 1.5 cuft will regen an estimated every 10 to 13 days for you. A 1 cuft takes less space for the tank, but not a lot less (9 inch diameter vs 10). The 1.5 will be slightly more efficient. Note that the new controllers are bigger fore-aft than your 155. The bypass will usually stick out the back a fair amount.

Also note that the Autotrol input and output are on opposite sides when you hook up your new softener if your new softener is not Autotrol.

 

[NameTaken2]

Flappers could cause leaking out the drain or into the brine tank, but not out of the housing and onto the floor.

I certainly would not want to talk you out of that.

I fairly recently replaced a similar softener when the timer failed to work for the second time. The old softener would make a loud sound during backwash also, but that was not the cause of getting rid of it. I got a Fleck 5810-based system. It is definitely more salt-efficient.

Thanks-
Seems got lucky with 32yrs on this one, and expect the wonders and efficiency of latest technology will also present more frequent malfunctions.
Whatever the actual source of the leak, appears past due for an upgrade.

 

[ditttohead]

The Autotrol from the 80's would tend to develop a leak from the welded joint in the upper module. In general, time clock softeners are not even allowed anymore. The Autotrol flapper design can be one of the longest lasting designs... it is also loud and has a few drawbacks. Virtually all residential systems now include metering for massive increases in efficiency. The larger tank size also greatly increases efficiency.

Can you post a picture of your old system? 30 years is not unusual for the Autotrol, unfortunately the older systems were not very efficient. Modern high end valves maintain similar durability and provide superior flow rates, programmability, efficiency, and many other advantages. Rebuilding modern valves is also far easier than the old Autotrols. When I was working the field I would usually just pop the red bar, slap a new upper module on and go to my next call, worked every time!

 

[Bannerman]

The softener's total capacity is not normally utilized as that would require a large and inefficient quantity of salt to regenerate each time. The salt dose chosen determines the amount of capacity being actually regenerated.

While your existing softener had a total softening capacity of 32K grains when it was new, some of that capacity will have been lost due to resin bead fracturing and wear over time. Fractured and worn resin is commonly flushed to drain and in anticipation of those losses, a softener containing 1 cuft of resin is typically considered as 30K grains capacity over the lifespan of the resin.

Regeneration of all 32K grains in 1 cuft resin would require 18lbs salt and 30K would require 15 lbs salt, your 7 lb salt setting was appropriate to restore approx 22K grains capacity each regen cycle.

Although water consumption is now often estimated as 60 gallons per person per day average when efficient appliances and fixtures are used, I will use 75 gallons per person as a generous consumption estimate.

75 gals X 2 ppl X 19 gpg = 2,850 grains per day consumed.

As regeneration is occurring every 3 days, then only 8,550 grains are utilized from the 22K usable grains that are being regenerated. Your softener is currently regenerating enough capacity to provide approx 7 days usage. Additional capacity not utilized is simply wasted, along with the salt consumed to provide that capacity. When there were 4 residents, the 3-day regeneration frequency was more appropriate although a metered softener may have resulted in a 4-day regen frequency especially if less water had actually been consumed.

When establishing the size of softener to install, capacity is usually based on using an efficient salt dose while not requiring regeneration to be more frequent than 1X per week. With no iron in your municipal water, regeneration could be as little as 1X per month. Although you now predict 20K usable grains would meet your requirements, to efficiently obtain those 20K usable grains would require a larger softener.

1 cuft metered softener (32K grains total capacity):
for 20K usable grains capacity, would require 6 lbs salt (salt efficiency = 3,333 grains/lb) with an estimated regen frequency = 7 days - 1 day reserve capacity = 6 - 7 days
for 24K usable grains capacity, would require 8 lbs salt (efficiency = 3K gr/lb) = est regen frequency = 8 days - 1 day reserve = 7 - 8 days

A 1.5 cuft metered softener (48K grains total capacity):
for 30K usable grains, 9 lbs salt (3,333 gr/lb efficiency) = 9 - 10 days between regen
for 36K usable grains, 12 lbs salt (3K gr/lb efficiency) = 11 - 12 days

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/66

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/57

 

[NameTaken2]

The Autotrol from the 80's would tend to develop a leak from the welded joint in the upper module. In general, time clock softeners are not even allowed anymore. The Autotrol flapper design can be one of the longest lasting designs... it is also loud and has a few drawbacks. Virtually all residential systems now include metering for massive increases in efficiency. The larger tank size also greatly increases efficiency.

Can you post a picture of your old system? 30 years is not unusual for the Autotrol, unfortunately the older systems were not very efficient. Modern high end valves maintain similar durability and provide superior flow rates, programmability, efficiency, and many other advantages. Rebuilding modern valves is also far easier than the old Autotrols. When I was working the field I would usually just pop the red bar, slap a new upper module on and go to my next call, worked every time!

Yes, leak appears to be from upper joint.
May be inefficient, but after 32 trouble-free years of service doesn't owe me anything -time to upgrade!

-

 

[NameTaken2]

The softener's total capacity is not normally utilized as that would require a large and inefficient quantity of salt to regenerate each time. The salt dose chosen determines the amount of capacity being actually regenerated.

While your existing softener had a total softening capacity of 32K grains when it was new, some of that capacity will have been lost due to resin bead fracturing and wear over time. Fractured and worn resin is commonly flushed to drain and in anticipation of those losses, a softener containing 1 cuft of resin is typically considered as 30K grains capacity over the lifespan of the resin.

Regeneration of all 32K grains in 1 cuft resin would require 18lbs salt and 30K would require 15 lbs salt, your 7 lb salt setting was appropriate to restore approx 22K grains capacity each regen cycle.

Although water consumption is now often estimated as 60 gallons per person per day average when efficient appliances and fixtures are used, I will use 75 gallons per person as a generous consumption estimate.

75 gals X 2 ppl X 19 gpg = 2,850 grains per day consumed.

As regeneration is occurring every 3 days, then only 8,550 grains are utilized from the 22K usable grains that are being regenerated. Your softener is currently regenerating enough capacity to provide approx 7 days usage. Additional capacity not utilized is simply wasted, along with the salt consumed to provide that capacity. When there were 4 residents, the 3-day regeneration frequency was more appropriate although a metered softener may have resulted in a 4-day regen frequency especially if less water had actually been consumed.

When establishing the size of softener to install, capacity is usually based on using an efficient salt dose while not requiring regeneration to be more frequent than 1X per week. With no iron in your municipal water, regeneration could be as little as 1X per month. Although you now predict 20K usable grains would meet your requirements, to efficiently obtain those 20K usable grains would require a larger softener.

1 cuft metered softener (32K grains total capacity):
for 20K usable grains capacity, would require 6 lbs salt (salt efficiency = 3,333 grains/lb) with an estimated regen frequency = 7 days - 1 day reserve capacity = 6 - 7 days
for 24K usable grains capacity, would require 8 lbs salt (efficiency = 3K gr/lb) = est regen frequency = 8 days - 1 day reserve = 7 - 8 days

A 1.5 cuft metered softener (48K grains total capacity):
for 30K usable grains, 9 lbs salt (3,333 gr/lb efficiency) = 9 - 10 days between regen
for 36K usable grains, 12 lbs salt (3K gr/lb efficiency) = 11 - 12 days

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/66

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/57

Bannerman, that's an info-packed post and much appreciated!
Based on your info and the attachments, appears best option for (2) occupant home is:
1 cuft metered softener set for 6lb salt regen, and expect the meter-driven regen every 7 days.
Yes?

Since the resin was replaced approx 16yr ago, assume the entire system should be replaced?

Thanks again for your time providing great info!

 

[ditttohead]

Just out of curiosity, have you had to replace anything on the unit? Usually after 15 years the upper module leaks or the system runs to the drain due to worn flapper valves. Also, the white gear on the front usually breaks or the flapper can gear snaps.

 

[NameTaken2]

No problem with Autotrol 155 prior to this.

 

[ditttohead]

That's pretty awesome! It has always been a good valve but it had some definite flaws as discussed above. I used to stock 20 of those gears on my service truck, a dozen cam gears, and I would sell a complete upper module every week. We never used their bypass, it was a horror show! We used the Divertaflo which was similar but it didn't break every time you tried to use it.

 

[NameTaken2]

Bypass for this is a 3-valve setup at wall behind the unit.