Do furnaces have MSRP? Got scammed(?) and need to know what unit is worth

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Corman2000

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Hey guys,

Had a furnace installed recently and they didn't install the one they were supposed to. It seems like the installer was the issue, and the GM of the company seems like he is happy to correct the issues. I need to know what the cost difference of the two units is so I can settle with him.

Was quoted: Ducane 95G2DF090CV20
Installed: Ameristar A952V060BD3S

Looks like the installed furnace is lower BTU, but that's all I know. If anyone could provide any pricing (retail or wholesale) for either unit it would be muchly appreciated. I don't care that there's a mark-up on the unit, it's normal and expected, but if I paid for a more expensive unit I best be getting what I paid for.

Thanks!

Cory
 

WorthFlorida

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I do not know the answer but MSRP means nothing, it's the cost to the contractor. Most HVAC systems are sold by a local supplier (county or city or regional supplier) who sells to the individual company (dealer) that sells, installs and services HVAC equipment. Some manufacturers require dealers to contracts and must meet training and technical knowledge of their products. If your quote is written in a contract signed by all for the Ducane, then you have a legal case. You'll need to call the Ducane company in Canada to see if they are an authorized dealer, if not then they are representing a product they cannot sell.

I know it doesn't answer your question. Air Conditioning manufacturer products sold through suppliers (Florida), equivalent products between most companies are nearly the same at the wholesale level, maybe within a few hundred dollars.
 

WorthFlorida

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Google: "price for Ducane 95G2DF090CV20"

How much does a ducane furnace cost?
Ducane Gas Furnace Prices By Model
Models Unit Only Unit Installed Cost
Ducane
95G1 $1,800 $3,400
Ducane 92G1 $1,650 $3,050
Ducane 80G2 $1,000 $2,350
Ducane 80G1E 80G1 $950 $2,300

(US Dollars)
 

Dana

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Hey guys,

Was quoted: Ducane 95G2DF090CV20
Installed: Ameristar A952V060BD3S

Looks like the installed furnace is lower BTU, but that's all I know. If anyone could provide any pricing (retail or wholesale) for either unit it would be muchly appreciated. I don't care that there's a mark-up on the unit, it's normal and expected, but if I paid for a more expensive unit I best be getting what I paid for.

Thanks!

Cory

The up-charge for a ~30KBTU/hr larger burner and slightly higher cfm blower within a model line is typically $200. I'm not sure if the Ducane & Ameristar are similar enough (or possibly the same series under a different brand from the same manufacturer, which is common), but in some ways the contractor may have done you a favor. Even a 60KBTU/hr furnace is ridiculously oversized for a normal sized house at Vancouver's 25F/ -4C 99% outside design temp (maybe not too ridiculous if you moved the house to Whitehorse without upgrading the insulation & windows). A 90K furnace is usually grotesquely oversized for a normal sized house, so oversized that it becomes a comfort problem during colder weather.

A "right sized" furnace would have a max output of about 1.4x the heat loss of the house at the 99% outside design temperature (only 87 hours per year are colder than that, averaged over 25 years) , which is sufficient to cover the load during Polar Vortex disturbance cold snaps, but runs a (1/1.4 =) 71% duty cycle when it's -4C outside, which is FAR more comfortable than the brief hot blast followed by the extended chill & draft typical of >3x+ oversized factors. As temperatures drop below the 99% outside design temp the duty cycle grows, so even when it's -15C outside you're still comfortable.

If you have a heating history on the place you can estimate your actual design heat load (including duct losses, etc) to a reasonable accurate level factoring fuel use against heating degree-day data, as outlined here. A typical 2500 square foot 2x4 framed house with clear-glass double-pane windows (no low-E) would have heat load somewhere around 20,000 BTU/hr @ -4C if the basement walls are insulated to R10 and the house is reasonably tight, 25-30,000 BTU/hr if the foundation is uninsulated and it leaks air like a tennis racquet.

Assuming a 99% design load of 25K the right-size unit would be a 35-40KBTU-in furnace, and a 60K-in/57K-out unit would be fully 2x oversized- not great, but not miserable either, whereas a 90K-in/85K-out furnace would be >3x oversized, and something you really don't want in your house. Even at it's lowest speed the 95G2DF090CV20 would be >2x oversized for a 25K load, meaning it's variable speed modulation would be pretty useless.

The minimum speed output of the A952V060BD3S appears to be ~39K, which may mean it still never needs more than the low firing stage, but the duty cycle would be sorta-reasonable for a 25K load if locked to the lower stage. Another aspect of right-sizing/down sizing is the quieter more comfortable (less wind-chill & whistle at the registers) of a lower cfm blower. With the variable speed units you may be able to keep it from ever running at it's highest cfm (I'm not going to read the manual, but you should), which would be better for comfort overall.
 

Fitter30

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Ducane is by Lennox Ameristar is by Trane. Prices for HVAC equipment and parts might start out with a msrp price but the multiplier for a discount varies with how many dollars are spent, units ordered, certified contactor ,if you large enough to deal with your own sales person and how hungry they are.
 

Dana

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Ducane is a subsidiary of Lennox, Ameristar is a subsidiary of Trane

Thanks for that! I don't recall seeing either of those brands in my area- didn't know, and I'm too lazy to look it up. :)

With hot air furnaces the brand isn't really all that important- it's a competitive market and the real flea-bitten dog models get scrubbed out of the market pretty fast. It's more important that the contractor fully supports and backs whatever they're installing.
 
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