Watts dual media softener, no silky water!

[Kamisn]

Hello, I am newbe here and to water softener world. Per a reputable water softener dealer suggestion here in Texas I have replaced our old softener with 45k watts single tank dual media system which has clack ws1, the top media is carbon and bottom one is 8% resin. The water felt silky and nice first week and the week after it started to feel like hard water, backwashed the system and no change in silkiness feeling, I did the HC drop test before and after backwash and samples turned immediately blue, even the more accurate test with 100ml sample turns blue with first drop of tester. Our water before softener is at 9 grain. I have been told due to stacked media, water will not feel as silky as regular softener.

How do I get the silky effect back?

Link below is my system.

http://www.watts.com/pages/_products_details.asp?pid=7544

 

[Reach4]

HC drop test

HCA?

One thing that comes to mind is that maybe you are drawing the water you are judging at a high rate, such as filling a tub. You may be drawing the hardness sample with water that passes through the softener more slowly.

Another possibility would be that you are picking up something in the water heater... perhaps leftover calcium deposits?

I would try sampling the water from the stream you are judging the silkiness of, such as the water filling your tub or water from your showerhead, maybe midway or 3/4 of the way through the fill/shower.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Kamisn]

HCA?

One thing that comes to mind is that maybe you are drawing the water you are judging at a high rate, such as filling a tub. You may be drawing the hardness sample with water that passes through the softener more slowly.

Another possibility would be that you are picking up something in the water heater... perhaps leftover calcium deposits?

I would try sampling the water from the stream you are judging the silkiness of, such as the water filling your tub or water from your showerhead, maybe midway or 3/4 of the way through the fill/shower.

This is the test kit I used:

“Hach 145201 Total Hardness Test Kit, Model HA-71A”

I took the samples after running water for couple of minutes in the kitchen sink with high flow of water from both hot and cold water on multiple individual samples.

Talked to manufacture and they say if the test is indicating soft water then the water is soft, you just got used to soft water and don’t feel it no more, which I doubt. I know how soft water feels slimy, however if I use high purity soap like ivory soap or Dr. Bronner’s Castile soap it feels very slimy and the effect will last for a while, I was getting same slimy effect with regular soap on the first week of installation.

I am wondering lack of silkiness is due to carbon in the water?!

 

[Reach4]

I am wondering lack of silkiness is due to carbon in the water?!

Interesting idea... like a tiny grit increasing friction. Some people do put a cartridge filter after a softener.

You could try shining a laser beam through a glass of unsoftened water and a glass of test water. Look for increased dispersion or attenuation. However tiny bubbles would look similar. As the sample glass sits, bubbles will move up, and solids will move down.

You could see if something settles out with time in a jar. Maybe run the water through a fine white paper filter and see if any particles appear.

 

[Bannerman]

What are the current capacity and salt dose settings?

You state that your prior softener had 45K grains total capacity which would then contain 1.5 cuft of softening resin. Although the new media tank will be the same size as your previous softener, the marketing literature indicates the new softener contains only 1 cuft of resin and 0.5 cuft of carbon.

For 1 cuft of resin, an appropriate and efficient usable capacity and salt dose would be programmed as either:
20K grains capacity, requiring 6 lbs salt each regeneration cycle (high salt efficiency, but also slightly higher hardness leakage)
OR
24K grains capacity, requiring 8 lbs salt each regeneration cycle (slightly less salt efficiency but also less hardness leakage)

Hach test results are typically reported in Grains Per Gallon. As 0 gpg can contain up to 17 ppm hardness, your prior softener may have been programmed to deliver higher quality water (less hardness leakage) whereas the new softener maybe delivering some higher ppm hardness, but less than 17 so the hardness test continues to report 0 grains per gallon.

If you report the current settings, we can then verify if they are appropriate and if not, some recommended settings to likely improve the softener's performance.

 

[ditttohead]

In general a carbon tank will raise the pH for a while, this will change the feel of the water. Watts is correct, soft is soft. Even the slightest change can affect the feel of the water. Changes from your municipal source including elevated levels of silica can affect the silky feeling. This is a common question that tends to lack a solid answer.

Did you use the low range test kit? This is a great kit, very accurate. The low range will tell you a lot more than the high range.

 

[Kamisn]

Clarifications, I don't know my previous unit grain exactly, my installer said it was a 30k.

New Watts unit is a 13"x 55" tank that has clack WS1 and supposedly is a 45K.

Settings are as follow:

• Unit installed two weeks ago.
• Per my installer it has 1.5 cuft of resin in the tank as it is a larger diameter tank.
• City water hardness is set to 10 as the hardness test indicated it was 9.
• Unit is set to 30K grains capacity.
• 9 lb of salt.
• Normal length backwash
• Post wash brine refill tank.
• downflow.
• regeneration override is set to two weeks.
• Four people living in the house, occasional stay over guests, total of eight with guests.

With above setting it indicates the regeneration to happen after 3000 gal. My installer suggested to experiment for next regeneration to set it at 15 lb of salt and see if it does bring the sliminess feeling back.

I did the Low Range test tonight again after letting the water run for over 5 minutes and took the sample from bathroom faucet while water was running. took 100ml of sample and per test kit instruction used the 2ml of buffer Solution (hardness 1), 4 drops of hardness 2 indicator (red dye) and as I was applying the drops they would start change slightly blue from red, once I swirled to mix it the whole flask turned blue, this tells me the water is at 1 mg/L or even 0 mg/L which I don't think I can get it any softer than that , so I did not even need to add the "Titrant Reagent" (Hardness 3), however I started applying H3 drops to see if I get any color change in the water and all the way to 20 drops color stayed the same.

 

[Kamisn]

If you report the current settings, we can then verify if they are appropriate and if not, some recommended settings to likely improve the softener's performance.

Would you be able look at my softener settings that I have posted on previous post and give me some advise?

Thanks.

 

[Bannerman]

The link provided to show your system did not list any models or specifications. The Sales Brochure showed only two models, each utilizing 10X54 tanks and containing 1 cuft resin and 0.5 cuft carbon. The settings I indicated above, were based on the sales brochure information as no models were listed with specifications you stated in post # 7.

The capacity and salt dose settings currently programmed are appropriate for 1.5 cuft of resin and would normally be recommended for high salt efficiency.

As implied, using a 12 lb salt dose (8 lbs/cuft) would allow the usable capacity to be increased to 36K grains and would also provide higher water quality which may better satisfy your expectations.

As Ditttohead mentioned, perhaps the inclusion of carbon maybe affecting pH and your perceptions of water softness.

Comments/questions:

• Was an adequate quantity of water manually added to the brine tank in advance of the first full regeneration cycle?
• It may be beneficial to increase the hardness setting by 2 or 3 grains above the test results at your home. City water is often obtained from multiple sources which each can possess unique hardness properties. When you test, that is a snapshot at that time but hardness can vary by water demand, season or well and distribution system maintenance. Although you added 1 grain, it is usually recommended to anticipate some variance by programming 2 or 3 additional grains.

 

[Reach4]

Would you be able look at my softener settings that I have posted on previous post and give me some advise?

Is that all of your softener settings on #7?

If not, this would be a good time for you to post all of your current softener settings, and from that, Bannerman could maybe be able to make a good guess at what you have.

 

[Kamisn]

The link provided to show your system did not list any models or specifications. The Sales Brochure showed only two models, each utilizing 10X54 tanks and containing 1 cuft resin and 0.5 cuft carbon. The settings I indicated above, were based on the sales brochure information as no models were listed with specifications you stated in post # 7.

The capacity and salt dose settings currently programmed are appropriate for 1.5 cuft of resin and would normally be recommended for high salt efficiency.

As implied, using a 12 lb salt dose (8 lbs/cuft) would allow the usable capacity to be increased to 36K grains and would also provide higher water quality which may better satisfy your expectations.

As Ditttohead mentioned, perhaps the inclusion of carbon maybe affecting pH and your perceptions of water softness.

Comments/questions:

• Was an adequate quantity of water manually added to the brine tank in advance of the first full regeneration cycle?
• It may be beneficial to increase the hardness setting by 2 or 3 grains above the test results at your home. City water is often obtained from multiple sources which each can possess unique hardness properties. When you test, that is a snapshot at that time but hardness can vary by water demand, season or well and distribution system maintenance. Although you added 1 grain, it is usually recommended to anticipate some variance by programming 2 or 3 additional grains.

Thanks for the reply, that is true, the brochure does not have my model specs, but certainly is a larger tank.

So, am I understanding this correctly? Shall I set it at 12 lb of salt and 36K, with water hardness set at let say 12? right now per my installer I have changed the setting at 15lb for next regeneration, I also manually triggered regeneration couple of nights ago to have the brine tank filled according to 15 lb.

To answer your question, I don't think he filled it with extra water after installation, I am not sure, only with the valve programing default. Shall I manually add more water?

 

[Kamisn]

Is that all of your softener settings on #7?

Is there any other settings that I am missing that I can provide?

 

[Reach4]

Is there any other settings that I am missing that I can provide?

I looked at a WS1 manual. Maybe that does not apply to your unit. Did you give all of the setting info? If so, that's fine. I thought there might be more.

 

[ditttohead]

Repeat..


Did you use the low range test kit? This is a great kit, very accurate. The low range will tell you a lot more than the high range.

What did the low range test kit show?

Read this article, it is written by one of the smartest guys in this industry. He has likely forgotten more than I know.

http://www.wcponline.com/2012/03/05/soft-soft-water/

 

[Kamisn]

Repeat..


Did you use the low range test kit? This is a great kit, very accurate. The low range will tell you a lot more than the high range.

What did the low range test kit show?

Read this article, it is written by one of the smartest guys in this industry. He has likely forgotten more than I know.

http://www.wcponline.com/2012/03/05/soft-soft-water/

Interesting article, I have redone the low range test and explained the results in post 7, my observation was as soon as I put the red dye in and swirled the container it turned blue. The low range test is for 1 to 20mg/L which in my case I did not even put the hardness drops, which to me it meant the water is at 0-1 mgL hardness, or I better term is softest that a test kit could demonstrate.