Flex Connectors - Water Heater

[FoxHome01]

Since clearly changing the anode rod, expansion tank and PRV haven't solved my smear-like, black spec issue, I figured the last resort is checking the braided flex connectors.

While I believe I know what these look like, I can't seem to find them on my water heater. I've included a link to some photos. Am I missing something?

 

[FoxHome01]

If you have them, they're under the thick foam tube insulation, flanking where the vent exits the top of the heater.

I supposed I need to take a peak. In the event they aren't flex connectors, is there anything else that leads to or part of the hot water heater that may have "rubber" connected to it that might be breaking down? Perhaps I'm missing something so small.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Runs with Bison]

I'm somewhat surprised you have what appears to be flammable insulation right next to the flue.

 

[Cass]

Judging by what I see you don't have flex lines but you should still look...

 

[Cass]

explaine the black specks better....where, when, how long etc.

 

[FoxHome01]

I'm somewhat surprised you have what appears to be flammable insulation right next to the flue.

Unsure why it's there. This is how it was when we bought the house. Inspector and 2 plumbers later didn't say anything so I figured this was normal.

Not so normal, huh? I haven't gone up there yet, but I suspect that what might be flex connectors on other water heaters, on ours are copper lines. I assume there is a reason for the insulation if that's the case.

 

[FoxHome01]

explaine the black specks better....where, when, how long etc.

We've been dealing with this on and off for exactly a year. We first noticed it in the dishwasher. Our son's bottles were coming out with some signficiant black specs on them that would smear. In fact anything that was plastic they would stick to. They would smear when we would try to remove it.

The inside casing of the dishwasher too was covered with these as well. Then we started to notice them in the bathtubs. Decided to run faucets throughout the house with the hot water and sure enough black specs. Sometimes it appeared greasy.

Had the expansion tank and anode rod replaced. 4-6 months later they re-appeared but these were much larger pieces that "floated" and when rubbed would breakdown pretty easily. Didn't necessarily attach and smear so much. We then replaced the PRV. 5 months later (now) they started to reappear.

Ironically when the PRV was replaced in March it turns out that it was defective and water had been leaking from it for the last few months. Just found out about it and had it re-replaced last week. Although we were noticing the black specs randomly before the re-replacement of the PRV, it came in full force within 3 days of the PRV being replaced.

My son's bath was filled with quite a number of these last night. I took a sample from the water heater and sure enough they are there.

I think we will try to flush the water heater out this weekend and see if that makes any difference. I suspect it will only be temporary though.

We've honestly hit a wall. We have no idea what else it could be. Very frustrated and upset that we can't resolve this.

I highly doubt that the PRV would breakdown this quickly and I'm not even convinced that that was is since the original didn't even look that bad.

 

[FoxHome01]

I'm somewhat surprised you have what appears to be flammable insulation right next to the flue.

If this insulation is not right, is there any chance that the black specs are coming from that? Although I suspect it would be rather difficult to get into the hot water heater since they are on the outside.

Can you see that I'm desperate for an answer?

 

[Furd]

At what temperature is your water heater set? If it is significantly lower than 140 degrees it may be bacteria.

 

[FoxHome01]

Water filters/softeners could have such connections.

We don't have either.

Anything else?

 

[Runs with Bison]

Unsure why it's there. This is how it was when we bought it. Inspector and 2 plumbers later didn't say anything so I figured this was normal.

Not so normal, huh? I haven't gone up there yet, but I suspect that what might be flex connectors on other water heaters, on ours are copper lines. I assume there is a reason for the insulation if that's the case.

Insulating the water lines at the top of a tank (hot and cold) is good because it reduces thermosiphon of hot water up into the lines, which then cools and falls back into the tank. The hot water line also doesn't cool as much in between demands for hot water--meaning water to the tap gets hot sooner. It's a neatly done insulating job on yours, I'm just surprised at the material in the vertical runs beside the flue.

All the guides and manuals for nat. gas heaters say not to put any flammable insulation types within about 6 inches of the flue opening or wall. Insulation is okay if it is a type that can withstand exhaust combustion gas temps. I've been wanting to insulate my lines in this area but need to find some approved insulation for the job. I am a little surprised that the inspector didn't comment. Was this a home inspector or was it a municipal inspection dept.? Maybe I'm misinterpreting this.

Once you get your flex concern sorted out you can wrap the tank in an insulating blanket about it R6.7 to R10 and cut the jacket losses of the tank nearly in half. That could save roughly 0.5-1 therm/month.

 

[hj]

specks

They are probably not rubber, and even if they were they would not come from a flexible connector, since the rubber in them is not really in contact with the water. They seem to be sulphur magnesium granules. What did you change the anode rods to?

 

[FoxHome01]

They are probably not rubber, and even if they were they would not come from a flexible connector, since the rubber in them is not really in contact with the water. They seem to be sulphur magnesium granules. What did you change the anode rods to?

Aluminum (which I think is what is recommended) - also when the plumber took out the old one it wasn't really in bad shape. Water heater isn't that old, perhaps 5-7 years.

 

[Runs with Bison]

Put a strong magnet up next to a jar with some of the black specs just to make sure they are not ferritic (iron from the tank.) I've seen black specs in plant process water that turned out be a corrosion issue in some carbon steel equipment. The magnet was a lot quicker than sending it off for analysis.

The specs won't be coming from the insulation.

 

[FoxHome01]

At what temperature is your water heater set? If it is significantly lower than 140 degrees it may be bacteria.

Interestingly enough, part of me thinks that we have two separate problems.

I have to check to see what I have it set at. But I lowered it mid-summer to save a little mula and within 2 weeks I did notice that the specs were appearing on the plastic pieces in the dishwasher. I raised it and it seemed to help a little although I still saw them randomly. Honestly, those seem to be mysterious b/c I'm not so sure they can be seen so much until they've "attached" themselves to something.

These new and looser pieces of black particles we are seeing now (and back in March) react differently - they are visible, float and break apart when rubbed.

Let's assume these are two separate issues. If my first issue is bacteria, what is the recommended way to deal with that?

BTW, I have had my water tested by 3 different sources and they all claim that it's within normal levels. I had it tested by a water specialist (who had something to sell me), one of the plubmers who took it somewhere to be tested and then again by the City. I will say that when the City tested the black particles, they were sure that it was rubber but the test was nonconclusive but stuck to the fact that it was rubber.

 

[Runs with Bison]

What is the blue thing? What is inside it?

EDIT: Nevermind, it is a thermal expansion tank. But why is it so close to the water heater? It looks like hot water will circulate up into it and destroy the bladder.

 

[FoxHome01]

What is the blue thing? What is inside it?

EDIT: Nevermind, it is a thermal expansion tank. But why is it so close to the water heater? It looks like hot water will circulate up into it and destroy the bladder.

We thought the same thing but 2 plumbers have advised that where it sits is fine. When we had the original expansion tank removed, that too didn't look like it was the problem. We didn't see any breakdown of rubber that was noticable and neither did the plumber.

We are hunting for a needle in a haystack.

 

[Cass]

Well here is 1 thing you can do...it is a Whirlpool and you can reurn it to Low*s and they will give you another no charge just tell them the problem...you will pay for the install but the heater will be free...and if the heater is the problem then the problem will go away...

 

[hj]

heater

The new heater will be "free" IF the tank is leaking. THAT is the only thing that the guaranteed covers. ANd it definitely would not cover "black specks" that they do not even know what they are or where they are coming from.

 

[Cass]

Low*s will replace it no matter what...that is their policy...reguardless of what they say...you can return anything any time for any reason...thats the policy....they may give you a hard time but they will exchange it.

I have seen it time and time again...