Where is the P trap?

[GaryM905]

Hi, looking for assistance before spending hundreds on a professional who would point out what's obvious to him. My apologies for my ignorance in plumbing.

This picture is showing under the sink in a kitchen island. This is all from a home built about 15 years ago. The P trap has to be somewhere, right? Is it under the wood base? Under the island? I know the P-trap is supposed to be accessible, but my fear is that the basement apartment under this kitchen has ceilings that are plastered shut.

What's the easiest way to find it? Or am I just not seeing something here?

Thanks

 

[Terry]

If there is a p-trap below, there should be no wind coming up the pipes. You might try holding a match above the drain to see if it flickers.
I understand that there are parts of Canada that allow the p-trap under the floor, but like you say, how would you know? The trap seal prevents air from wafting up from the sewers. Check for air movement.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[GaryM905]

If there is a p-trap below, there should be no wind coming up the pipes. You might try holding a match above the drain to see if it flickers.
I understand that there are parts of Canada that allow the p-trap under the floor, but like you say, how would you know? The trap seal prevents air from wafting up from the sewers. Check for air movement.

Thank you. Selling the home and the buyer inspector said none exists. So I am stuck with proving one exists. I believe I have to see if it is cheaper to knock holes or have a pro come in and put a visible P trap in.

 

[Ladiesman217]

Don't start knocking holes in anything. No need to do so.

Buy a cheap waterproof camera and inspect the drain. If you hit a pipe full of standing water with no air space, there is a trap. The distance to the trap should not be very far down the sink drain line. The right drain line looks to be pretty straight, so I would use that drain for camera inspection to prove the existence of a trap.

You can also run water down the drain while the camera is in the pipe. That will prove that the trap holds water when in use.

You may also need a snake if the camera cable is not stiff enough.

Sample waterproof camera with semi rigid cable.

http://www.depstech.com/?portfolio=depstech-wifi-borescope

 

[Reach4]

Even if there were a trap, wouldn't that fall afoul of the maximum tailpiece restriction? So in that case, Gary would not want to find a trap under the floor there I think.

If he can get a trap with an AAV added, that is going to be the cheapest. That appears to be allowed in Toronto for remodels. "2.5.9.2 Air Admittance Valves"

 

[LLigetfa]

I can see a cleanout at the bottom. I would open the cleanout and drop a weighted cotton yarn down and see if it comes back up soaked.

 

[Ladiesman217]

Even if there were a trap, wouldn't that fall afoul of the maximum tailpiece restriction? So in that case, Gary would not want to find a trap under the floor there I think.

If he can get a trap with an AAV added, that is going to be the cheapest. That appears to be allowed in Toronto for remodels. "2.5.9.2 Air Admittance Valves"

I think the tailpiece limit is 48" in Ontario.

Kitchen island tailpiece discussion here:

https://www.nachi.org/forum/f22/plumbing-trap-excessive-tail-piece-31466/

 

[Ladiesman217]

I can see a cleanout at the bottom. I would open the cleanout and drop a weighted cotton yarn down and see if it comes back up soaked.

He needs proof.

With a camera you can take pictures or record video.

 

[Reach4]

I think the tailpiece limit is 48" in Ontario.

https://www.nachi.org/forum/f22/plumbing-trap-excessive-tail-piece-31466/

Wow!

 

[LLigetfa]

He needs proof.

With a camera you can take pictures or record video.

With a wet string, he could be assured that a camera would be money well spent. Anyway, he still needs to prove that the picture is of his drain, and not some other drain. I would expect the home inspector that gave the report would have his own inspection camera to see for himself.

 

[hj]

Until you can prove there IS NO "P" trap, do NOT have a plumber install one above the floor, even with an AAV, or you will have a sink that does not drain.

 

[hj]

You have too much confidence in the ability and competency of the inspector.

 

[Reach4]

Until you can prove there IS NO "P" trap, do NOT have a plumber install one above the floor, even with an AAV, or you will have a sink that does not drain.

You are right that you should not have two traps in series, of course. I suspect the sink would drain however, presuming the bottom one was properly vented, and the new one had the AAV. Still a wrong thing to do.

I can see a cleanout at the bottom. I would open the cleanout and drop a weighted cotton yarn down and see if it comes back up soaked.

Another tool option is a piece of maybe 1/4 inch ID clear tubing. Maybe dip that in until the turn is felt, put your thumb over the end, and see how much water gets brought up in the tubing.

 

[GaryM905]

You folks are incredible. Thank you.

Inspection guy didn't seem to have a plumbing background. He didn't do (from what I know) any of what you folks are saying.

He also cited in his report that the basement kitchen vent wasn't plugged in (so plug it in!) and the kitchen fridge ice maker is broken (it's programmable and the light for off was lit). Simple things that made the buyers think that things were broken when he could have taken an extra 20 seconds and thought to resolve it.

 

[FullySprinklered]

No, you can't really trust the inspectors. He would need to be an expert in several trades and in know-how, outclassing the people whose work he's inspecting. Can't really happen in the real world. If he knew that much he would be out there making twice the money working in construction as a plumber, electrician, hvac person, etc. His reason for being is to catch bad work being done by unqualified people. That's good, but don't get carried away.

This is not a blanket condemnation of housing inspectors. Their findings and recommendations are part of my bread and butter.

 

[hj]

When i sold my last house, the inspector told my wife the cooktop was broken because it just beeped when he tried to turn it on. She told him it was an induction range and he had to put a pan on the burner first. He had several other pages also, but most of them were missing screws in wall plates.

 

[hj]

quote; I suspect the sink would drain however, presuming the bottom one was properly vented, and the new one had the AAV. Still a wrong thing to do.

I suspect you are NOT a plumber, because an AAV CANNOT cure a "double trap" condition.

 

[GaryM905]

Quick update. P trap was located between the joists, viewable and accessible via a step ladder. So much grief, so many (contractual) threats, and easily resolved.

Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and ideas.