Up close toilet test

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by abikerboy, May 12, 2006.

  1. abikerboy

    abikerboy DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    VA
    Toilet review; Went to visit my plumber today. He had several toilets set up on a make shift 2X4 stand, flushing into glass aquarium type tanks, and had "sponge" balls to flush down. All of his test toilets were ones that he sells in his own shop, so my opinion is the test was fair. I know the brand names, but cannot remember the model names, so I can't give advice as to each model without knowing more.
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2007
  2. Mike50

    Mike50 DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    699
    Location:
    Southern California
    Well, thats interesting however we know a few things about his test:

    1.The Map test results are based on various media-many flushes and results averaged. That is a video-commercial styled display based on what you wrote.

    2. He has a biased and financial interest in the test results.
    Im not saying the guy us dishonest but let me say this:
    That rig wouldn't be there unless the results didn't point to substantial
    profit makers for him. believe it.

    3.Test results have already been established prior to demonstration.

    4.He invested money to advertise Kohler.

    His "Test" sounds like it just may be 80% advertising and 20% science to me.

    He's creative.

    note: I own new Kohler & Toto toilets.


    With that being said I do believe this topic of trapway imperfections resulting in poor performance is a legitimate issue that most of us (consumers) never realized.
    Thanks for posting that.
    Last edited: May 12, 2006
  3. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,016
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Or you can just install them in your home like I do.

    The Cimarron (800 grams MaP for comfort height) plugged more often than some of the other brands I was using,

    It was better than their Wellworth (300 grams MaP)

    The trapway on the Cimarron lays down flat to the floor at the back, and then makes a hard 90% turn to the flange.

    Many of the better toilets have a sweep that turns the waste downwards.

    Like you said, you have no idea what models were being used,
    The Toto on the rack may have been the $99 CST703 (550 grams MaP)that is rarely ever sold. Somebody is selling them I guess, but I rarely do.

    Most of the 1500 Toto toilets that my customers buy every year are more like the Toto Drake (900 grams MaP) and the Ultramax.
    I've found that anything G-Max or Power-Gravity from Toto has been very good in the real world.
    Most of my sales are repeat and referral sales.
    Last edited: May 28, 2006
  4. vaplumber

    vaplumber Guest

    Hi all. Just joined this site today with the help of abikerboy. I wanted to touch this post because I am the man with the display in his shop. I want to say that this display has nothing to do with advertising and is all about science. This display is in my back shop and not even in reach of the general public. It was set up by my warehouser, the water control board and a local college to demonstrate water useage. We just added a little twist with the foam balls and in doing so, discovered the trapway flaws. I do business honest, so I discuss any flaws I find in a product with my customers. At my age, Im no longer in this to make a killing. I keep this place going because somehow it keeps me going, and the customers Ive had for the last 35 years keep us both going. There are two other displays here as well. One has an assortment of faucets, kitchen and bath, and the other display is armed with shower heads. The flow lines to each are monitored by computer flow meters. Very interesting to watch! If I were going to push anything for financial interest I would push the el cheapo contractor's toilets. That is what every one wants. To most of the public it is all about the bottom line, and I could make a killing on cheap products! I did recomend the Ultramax one piece to abikerboy, but he wouldnt go for the one piece look, so I recomended the Cimarron. I did advise him to stay away from the American Standard two piece as I have had many that would crack at the tank to bowl juction bolts. I find many of the test results that are posted throughout the web very educating but I make my own suggestions based on my own experiences. My idea on trap way flaws depends. If there is no glazing as I read in one post, return it and get another. If you find some small defects or minor bumps, use it and dont worry. There is no such of a thing as a perfect product, but total duds are very rare as well, otherwise the manufacturer would no longer exist.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2006
  5. Mike50

    Mike50 DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    699
    Location:
    Southern California
    I missed this and
    I stand corrected in my 5/12 post. Bikerboys original post made me suspicious in how he worded it. I now know there it was all Legit. And kudos for being creative as well Vaplumber.

    best,
    Mike
  6. vaplumber

    vaplumber Guest

    Mike. Rob did not know at this time why my set up was even there. He simply made the remark jokingly that somebody should design a test drive for toilets, so I took him through my shop! No offense taken and I applaud all response to this as it would apear to me as an advertising gimmick as well provided that I did not know the circumstances behind it. On a second note I installed the Kohler toilet in his guest bath, and he has decided to try the Toto in the master bath, but has not decided on which Toto to try. Terry, or some one, try to convince him fast please! :eek: I had to make him the deal that if he did not like either toilet I would swap at material cost only! Hardheaded little cuss, but Ive known him since he was in diapers!
  7. constantc

    constantc New Member

    Messages:
    13
    what does flushing sponge balls tell you about a toilet? :confused:

    There is nothing you would flush that would be close to a sponge ball. While entertaining, I don't see any real benefit of this kind of test.
  8. v_phillips

    v_phillips New Member

    Messages:
    8
    If a sponge ball gets snagged in the trapway, other solid matter will also. With all else being equal, the tendency for clogs to occur would be more likely in the rough trapway than in a smooth one. Flushing a sponge ball could also demonstrate the speed/power of the siphon. So you would do it to help in evaluating the performance of a toilet or model before making a purchase.
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