Toto is not the best flush, or is it?

[Twinpeakz]

The biggest scam in Marketing is this famous CEFIONTECT by TOTO... But since this is a TOTO sponsored site let me shed some light on what makes a good toilet company and what makes a bad toilet company.

-TOTO in some cases charges for "CEFIONTECT" in each of their toilets and as far as I know It's only inside the bowl... American Standard Cadet 3 HET or Champion 4 has "EverClean" a Silverbase Antimicrobial glaze inside and out on their product and is the only Anticrobial glaze recognized by the EPA as an Antimicrobial and it does prevent bacterial growth and makes it easier to clean.... but bottom line clean your toilets.

-American Standard Cadet 3 has a 5 Year INSIDE AND OUT WARRANTY and Champion 4 has 10 Years inside and out and actually has a Customer Service with Humane beings that answer the phone... TOTO make the claim in certain cases that in life on the Porcelain and 2 year in the Mechanism... Thats a joke... as Porcelain you will see the first day if theres an issue so thats misleading in so many ways.

-Besides the Consumer reports ratings which some claim is BOGUS has to look to VERITEC web site or MAP TEST which proves that American Standard has over 150 Toilet Models in the 1,000 grams club... TOTO's ultimate toilets for example hardly reaches 400 Grams in that rating... Now 400 gr is an acceptable flush but put the Compact Cadet 3 One Piece w/ everclean beside it at 1,000 grams rating and that in the 1.28 and 1.6 Gallons by far exceeds TOTO in every way.

-Now Quality.... Some on this site will say to look at the Seams they try to fix on the Porcelain poor attempt to mask it so the consumer see how bad this company is... Are you kidding me!!!! All companies including TOTO-GERBER-KOHLER do Quality control and dye test and repair seams pinholes.... It's porcelain for god sakes there are no company heads that will ever claim that they dont do this practice as it's parts of the Manufacturing process... ask any distributor and they will tell you every company has a bad batch as thats how it happens.

-Now all companies can claim anything however its what a company does about their issues that make them a good Company... so I can tell you American Standard is #1 when ity comes to this.... Trust this... Not Perfect but better than most.

-See when Codes in North America change from 3 gallons to 1.6 in the mid 90's North American Manufacturers such as Kohler, Crane/Eljer, American Standard had only added a float on their chain to split the evacuation of the tank in half so you had less weight hampering down which made the flappers close more quickly in turn made the North American user flush twice because we were use to flushing a certain way quickly but because at 3 gallons the flapper would rip open but so when this modification happened people thought it was the toilet that was the problem when really all you had to do is hold the trip lever an extra second and it would have been fine however you cant go to every door and change peoples habit so Companies like American Standard and Kohler redesigned their toilet by raising the deck on the bowls and increasing Trap size and flapper size... but during that Transition TOTO which had long been in Asia been on 6 Liters... which increase good perception with reason and in North America and rode the Gravy train... but now theres no doubt there not the best flushing toilet but Adequate.

Its just a Fact that cant be disputed...

And thats my 2 Cents.

 

[Terry]

And yet when I sell Kohler, American Standard and Toto, the Toto winds up with less then 1% returns.
Some American Standard products that I sell I have as high as 20% returns. I have the invoices here if you need them.

John Koeller at Veritec concedes that the testing has gotten out of hand. He feels that 500 grams is all that is needed. And that's where both John and I both agree.
You can produce a product that will pass a test that only worries about plastic wrapped bullets, or you can home test the puppies with the paste out of the can that hasn't been wrapped in plastic. Testing with paste gives a different result, it tends to get sticky. That is much more like what a homeowner would need to pass through a bowl.

Has anyone tried wrapped their poop in plastic before depositing it into the bowl?
I didn't think so.

I sell all of the brands, but it's not that easy to get repeat sales on some brands. If TwinPeakz would like to work with me, he can get a real education, instead of living the dream world that he's in right now.
This isn't a "paper" world, there are real people using real products, and they aren't plastic wrapped.

Repeat sales
I started off selling the Gerber Ultraflush back in 1998, I now sell maybe one or two a month.
Then Caroma, hardly any of those now.
American Standard, sometimes.
Toto, I don't even have to sell them, the biggest repeat sellers I've ever had. 801 in the last year. That's about 66 a month.
You can sell them and forget them. That's all a plumber or homeowner ever wants to hear.
That and they work so well, as not only flushing bullets, but also rinsing the bowl. The Veritec test doesn't look at bowl wash. So it's a little bit like judging how big the engine in your car is, but not telling you that you didn't get power steering. Of course anyone that wraps their poop in plastic doesn't need power steering I guess.

By the way, Toto was the first toilet to have the 3" flush valve.
It took ten years before Kohler and American Standard began to copy Toto.
Many of the Toto toilets that I sell in made in the USA, and some are imports.
About 1/3 of the units I've sold are USA manufactured.
All of the American Standard toilets that I've seen on the West Coast are imports, as are the Kohlers.

If you had a mid 90's toilet or later, it was meant to use 1.6 gallons.
Even now, a toilet uses either 1.28 or 1.60
The tanks are not meant to be emptied. And if you tried to empty some of those eary 90's bowls by holding the handle down, you were likely to flood your bathroom, the trapway designs were that bad.

TOTO Sponsored?
That's a laugh. It would be nice if I could get the same pricing that some get. Maybe TwinPeakz can help me with that.
I would love a sponsorship from someone like Stihl or DeWalt. Even Ford or Chevy would be nice.
For now, I have the random advertising on the site that just shows up.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gary Swart]

This is NOT a Toto sponsored site. This site is sponsored by Terry Love who not only sell Toto toilets but many other brands as well. The Toto toilets are his best sellers, but Toto (the company) does not sponsor the site.

 

[Redwood]

Why is it the American Standard Champion is called the "Champion 4" and the Cadet is called the "Cadet 3?"

I rest my case...

The last "Champion" I installed that was not customer supplied was just a plain old "Champion" which I guess would be a "Champion 1"
The lesson was learned....

 

[Ian Gills]

I have had a Cadet 3 for years now and it is an excellent toilet.

A welcome addition to any home.