Toto Eco Drake vs Kohler Wellworth vs AS Champion Pro

Users who are viewing this thread

Dan Craft

New Member
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
Ah, the joys of [old] home ownership: returning from holiday travels to find a toilet bowl with extensive cracking below the waterline, and black rock-like material oozing from the cracks...

After three days researching, I'm looking at the Toto Eco Drake CST744E (Terry, thanks so much for your list of standard-height Toto models), Kohler Wellworth K-3998-0, and American Standard Champion Pro. These are all standard-height, elongated bowl, two piece models, with 1.28 gal flush (CA mandated).

My question is about the depth of water at the, er, drop point. If there is too little depth, then it could be quite stinky without an additional courtesy flush, which thwarts some of the water saving. I like the design of the Kohler best, but I saw a negative user review pointing out this issue. I've watched flush test videos on the three models to the point my head is spinning, and it's too hard to tell.

If you have experience with one of these models, do you have any input on the issue of "stuff" remaining uncovered at the drop point?

In Consumer Reports, the American Standard scored the highest with an 81: Excellent solid waste rating, Very Good noise rating, and Excellent bowl cleaning rating [they tested the Champion 4 Max, which may have a different flushing system, so uncertain here, plus I don't like the styling as much]. The Toto Eco Drake was second with a 75: Very Good solid waste rating, Very Good noise rating, and Very Good bowl cleaning rating. The Kohler Wellworth K-3575 (which has the same bowl as the K-3998-0) was basically the same as the Toto with a 74: Excellent solid waste rating, Very Good noise rating, and Very Good bowl cleaning rating.

Oh yeah, Happy New Year! ;)
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
I'm biased, I prefer Toto to Kohler products. But, my Toto's are older, 1.6g versions, so I do not have experience with the lower volume ones. What others have indicated is that much of the water savings on the 1.28g versions came from more carefully calibrating the refill verses much of any other changes.
 

Terry

The Plumbing Wizard
Staff member
Messages
29,946
Reaction score
3,460
Points
113
Location
Bothell, Washington
Website
terrylove.com
Of those, the TOTO Drake CST744EG would be my choice for standard height, elongated.
I recently pulled out three Champion 4 bowls and replaced with TOTO Ultramax II's. The homeowner had purchased TOTO for his previous home, but had also read CR. His experiment of going by Consumer Reports was short lived. Maybe they should ask the plumbers what we like. Though they have told me to quit writing about what I do for a living. What a laugh. I don't write about baby food, so maybe they should stick to that, and let me do the plumbing thing.

Consumer Reports 1 pick the Champion, which turned out to have a recall on it. The original that CR liked had some very poor consumer reviews.
 
Last edited:

Dan Craft

New Member
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Points
1
Location
California
I'm biased, I prefer Toto to Kohler products. But, my Toto's are older...

Jim, thanks so much for you response. Knowing you don't experience the bowl shallow water height issue with your 1.6 gal, coupled with your point that this is likely to apply for the 1.28 gal as mostly the fill valve calibration is different, is helpful.

Of those, the TOTO Drake CST744EG would be my choice for standard height...

Terry, I think I will go for exactly the model you recommended. I want the CEFIONTECT, as I've seen many recommend it and only one negative that it doesn't last (and you then can't use an abrasive cleaner to clean the water stain).

I do wonder if CR isn't biased for "good old" American Standard--I doubt their tests are blind. The fact that plumbers prefer the TOTO speaks to their reliability, ease of installation, and ease of repair, which are all important, plus you have to pull them out if homeowners don't like them.

Thanks for your reply!
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks