Submersible Pump Help

[Marcie702]

I am in desperate need of help with my submersible pump. Our Well/pump had been working fine until two weeks ago. I checked control box, electricity, pressure switch and all seemed to be working so I pulled the pump. It was only 1 year old and was still under warranty so returned for new pump. I checked wire closely and did not see any damage to it, re-attached new pump and put it back into the well. I went ahead and replaced pressure switch, gauge, and control box. All worked well for 24 hours and now no water again. I checked breaker switch and it was on, turned it on and then off, hear a click inside control box and that is all. I have 240v going to and from pressure switch, 240v going into control box, however coming out of control box I get 240v with yellow and black wires, 203v with yellow and red wires , and 300v with red and black. Does this mean there is something wrong with control box? I really don’t want to pull this pump again. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My husband is in a wheelchair and I try to do all I can, and can’t afford to hire someone to help.

 

[Reach4]

Your troubleshooting ability seems to be well above average.

I have no relevant experience. I am wondering if the relay in the box that is supposed to connect power to the capacitor for a few seconds on start-up may be open. If it was the box described here http://www.deanbennett.com/testing-submersible-pump-control-box.htm I would be suspecting the QD relay. If you still have the old box, and it is pretty much the same, you could try swapping the relays.

I could also see the problem being the start capacitor being open. You can roughly test that with an ohmmeter after the capacitor is isolated.

I can think of some more testing if we had the schematic of the actual unit you use. You might identify what control box you have.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Marcie702]

Your troubleshooting ability seems to be well above average.

I have no relevant experience. I am wondering if the relay in the box that is supposed to connect power to the capacitor for a few seconds on start-up may be open. If it was the box described here http://www.deanbennett.com/testing-submersible-pump-control-box.htm I would be suspecting the QD relay. If you still have the old box, and it is pretty much the same, you could try swapping the relays.

I could also see the problem being the start capacitor being open. You can roughly test that with an ohmmeter after the capacitor is isolated.

I can think of some more testing if we had the schematic of the actual unit you use. You might identify what control box you have.

Sorry I forgot to list info on pump and control box: It is a Flotec FP3222-13 3/4hp 3 wire pump, control box came with it. It does not have a brand name listed on it, but has this number: FP217-811-P2. Schematic is similar.

I also checked an ohm reading on wires going down to pump and got the following yel/red 8, Bl/red 11, yel/bl 3 which seems to be wnl. Yes I do have old control box and can put it in or swap out capacitor, It is a brand new box. I am not real comfortable using a multi meter but am trying to learn. The capacitor does not show damage of getting hot or burnt out.

 

[Reach4]

Do you have the old control box and is it the same?

I suspect the control box. But it would be good to get another opinion before spending more money.

If you can get to the orange wire of the capacitor, make sure the voltage across the cap (orange to B terminal) is zero volts DC so you don't hurt the meter. It probably is, but it is not that hard to check. Then in 1 Mohm range, touch across the cap. The indication should drop low and then slowly rise to infinity. Reverse the leads, and see another quick drop and then rise to infinity. If the capacitor seems right, I would then think about the relay.

I am thinking about an idea where you short across the relay terminals 5 to 1. Power the pump for only 4 seconds, and see if you get water. If that works, that would pretty much say the relay is the bad thing. Maybe working at that level is not a good idea, and it would probably be wise to hear from the people who actually work with pumps before trying that.

 

[Valveman]

If you have a clip around amp meter it would tell us more.

 

[Marcie702]

If you have a clip around amp meter it would tell us more.

I do not have a clip around amp meter.

 

[Reach4]

http://www.flotecpump.com/resources/images/42256.pdf says your control box is FP217-811. Searching that number shows that might cost as little as $60. You might want to just swap that out.

If you call Flotec and tell them what you know, they might send you one. I don't know, but it seems worth a try.

Here is what I am thinking. Your measurements seem to say that the wiring is not broken. Now is the pump locked up and is not pumping for that reason? Or is the start winding not getting the current that it needs to do its job. That 300V number had me mystified for a bit. Aha. My hypothesis is that motor is acting like an autotransformer. Cool. That makes me suspect that the clamp-on ammeter for the red wire would show near zero. In which case the control box would be the suspect. Bottom line, I would either try to troubleshoot the box to a component, or treat the box as a component.

I may well be wrong, but I would bet.

 

[Marcie702]

http://www.flotecpump.com/resources/images/42256.pdf says your control box is FP217-811. Searching that number shows that might cost as little as $60. You might want to just swap that out.

If you call Flotec and tell them what you know, they might send you one. I don't know, but it seems worth a try.

Here is what I am thinking. Your measurements seem to say that the wiring is not broken. Now is the pump locked up and is not pumping for that reason? Or is the start winding not getting the current that it needs to do its job. That 300V number had me mystified for a bit. Aha. My hypothesis is that motor is acting like an autotransformer. Cool. That makes me suspect that the clamp-on ammeter for the red wire would show near zero. In which case the control box would be the suspect. Bottom line, I would either try to troubleshoot the box to a component, or treat the box as a component.

I may well be wrong, but I would bet.

 

[Marcie702]

Well I borrowed my brothers amp meter and you are right zero reading on red wire and 7.5 on black and on yellow. As I said before not very good with a multimeter, I checked for voltage and got 0 between orange and black on cap, then moved it to 20k on OHM setting and it climbed to 14.9 and stayed there, reversed leads and it went to 15.4 and stayed. My multimeter has 20M, 200k, 20k, 2000, 200 OHM settings. If I set it on anything lower than 20k it just stays on I.

 

[Reach4]

You are saying that the capacitor shows about 15kohm (15000 ohms) across it, and you don't see a kick down when you first apply the leads.

Bad capacitor. Nice and easy repair.

See if you can get Flotec to give you a capacitor or box.

If you do replace the capacitor yourself, note that it needs to be a special non-polarized capacitor with a VAC working voltage rating. You don't want a capacitor designed for DC.