Stumped! What is it?

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by Zanmax, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Zanmax

    Zanmax New Member

    Messages:
    1
    My shower has a control valve that rotates clockwise for temperature control but has no control for water flow. I would like to change it so I can control both. It has no identifying brand marks or emblems so I don't know what it is. I assume the center disk must snap out but due to the corrosion I have not been able to remove it. (didn't want to break it)

    So does any one recognize this handle and how do I go about replacing it?

    Attached Files:

  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,815
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    valve

    The handle looks like an old Price Pfister, but they pulled out for volume control. Their button unscrewed, but many others just snap out. To do what you want, the entire valve will have to be replaced, not just the part the handle is attached to.
  3. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    Must be me....I don't see a handle, just an escutcheon with the guts removed. How about a pic of the handle and the cartridge.

    In any event, the answer to your question is >no way!
  4. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,134
    Location:
    New England
    Shower valves these days are required to be anti-scald. Most (but not all) that use pressure balance valves have NO volume control, it is either full on, or full off. Most thermostatically controlled valves (and some PB ones) have both a volume control and a separate temperature control. As noted, you'll have to change the whole thing to get what you want unless you can live with a new hole in the wall and run the current output through a new volume control valve.
  5. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,815
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    anti scald

    It is a universal code requirement. And the new code when it is adopted will require anti scald protection in public lavatories and domestic bathtubs also.
  6. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

    Messages:
    7,450
    Location:
    Connecticut
    They don't require scald protection in the hillbilly code?
    They do here and in every other civilized location I know of...
  7. Southern Man

    Southern Man DIY Hillbilly

    Messages:
    530
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Here the scald protection can be by a fixed setting at the shower valve, by set screw or similar device.
  8. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,815
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    anti scald

    That only controls the maximum temperature. The codes address the problem of sudden pressure deviations which change the temperature, usually hotter, instantaneously. The only way to do that is to either balance the pressures so they do not fluctuate, or use a thermostatic valve which does not rely on a fixed balance between hot and cold volumes for a given temperature.
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,134
    Location:
    New England
    If it's set at a nice say 105 degrees, your hot supply is a nice toasty 130, and the cold is turned off, guess what temp you are going to get out of that supposedly temperature limited valve...as much as 130-degrees. This can happen if someone in the bathroom flushes the toilet, disrupting the relative flow volumes between the two supplies. It probably won't last long, but the objective is to prevent that possibility. A pressure balanced valve will reduce both outputs or turn off the necessary output depending on the relative imbalance to protect the user. Children and older folks both have much thinner skin and burns can result; the startle effect can also cause them to slip and fall.

    For someone who claims to be so educated, you seem to miss the obvious and it's getting annoying...
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,134
    Location:
    New England
    And, if those that do not have the code required (for a long while now) anti-scald technology in them, they are in violation. Old ones are grandfathered, but any remodel or new construction requires those that meet the current code. A mechanical limit stop alone does NOT meet current codes, but is a safety feature incorporated into most today as a secondary feature.
  11. Phil Clemence

    Phil Clemence New Member

    Messages:
    22
    At first I thought the problem started when Southern Man mistook what Jadnashua said about most not having a volume control as being part of the code, but then he seemed to persist with the same idea.
    Jadnashua gives good examples that reveal the intent of the code. :)

    I use the Delta Monitor series, too, with the independent temperature control. Handy for getting the same temperate without fiddling, but not required and NOT a substitute for a pressure balance feature.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Everyone makes mistakes - I sure of it.

    Redwood: "I sure that you did graduate with low honors ...."
    ;)
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