Start a New Conversation: Rough in for toilet

[Novice71]

Can someone help me understand what the rough-in is, so I can solve a puzzle? My contractor supposedly ordered the toilet I asked for (Toto CST744EGN), which I chose after much research. I wanted that brand/model and particularly wanted the lower (non-ADA) bowl height. It wasn't til the bathroom remodel was done and I moved in that I realized I have the ADA height.

I never saw the box or packing slip, but I saw the order form, which lists the correct model. (I have since learned that I may not have the original receipt and that it may have been altered before providing to me.) I thought I could just swap it for the lower (correct) model, but my plumber tells me I need a 10" rough-in. I didn't know I needed a 10" rough-in when I chose the toilet, nor did I know that the "standard" is 12"--it wasn't anything I even thought about. I don't even know what that means. The problem--and puzzle--is that Toto doesn't make any toilets with the 10" rough-in that are not ADA height. That means I accidentally? got the wrong-height model that fit the existing 10" rough. I asked my plumber if anything could be modified to make the desired model work with my bathroom, and he said it would be quite involved, and my new tile floor would be damaged. He suggests I find a new toilet by a different manufacturer that has a lower bowl and 10" rough-in. I would prefer another solution, but I want to understand what is involved, and could the desired toilet have worked if it was known earlier (before tiling, etc.) that the wrong model was sent? In other words, had we known from the start that the old toilet, which was removed and trashed, had a 10" rough-in, what would have been necessary to use the desired model with a 12" rough-in?

Update: I have just learned about the Toto TSU01.10 Unifit 10" rough-in, which may solve my problem, at least the problem with the toilet. The problem with the contractor may require his wearing an orange jump suit.

 

[Terry]

The unifit adapter does not work with the C744EG bowl. 14-5/8" high and 12" rough.
It does with with the taller Vespin bowl, 16-1/8" high. Comes as a 12" but can be changed to a 10" or a 14"

How far from the wall to the center of your drain?
Normally you can get by with 11-1/4" on the CST744EGN bowl and tank combo.

 

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[Novice71]

The unifit adapter does not work with the C744EG bowl. 14-5/8" high and 12" rough.
It does with with the taller Vespin bowl, 16-1/8" high. Comes as a 12" but can be changed to a 10" or a 14"

How far from the wall to the center of your drain?
Normally you can get by with 11-1/4" on the CST744EGN bowl and tank combo.

Thanks for your reply, but I'm disappointed to learn that "uni" doesn't mean what it's supposed to. I don't want a taller bowl, that's the whole problem. Can you tell me how I, an ignorant lay person, can locate the center of the drain, given that there's a fixture in place?

Also, how would 11-1/4" help me?

 

[Terry]

The uni makes many of the skirted TOTO bowls shift to different rough dimensions. It won't fix coffee in the morning for you.
Sorry if that doesn't float your boat.

If you have a toilet in place, you can measure from the wall, not the floor molding. I don't know why that would be hard to understand, but it does seem hard for some.
The caps will cover bolts that hold down the bowl, normally "on center". Taking a measuring thingy, you read off the distance from the wall the the center of the bolts.
Most of the time that would be plus or minus 12" unless your home was built in the 1920's, when wall mount tanks were the norm and the tank connected to the bowl with a metal tube. Those were mainly roughed at 14"
If you have 11", then the TOTO in your possesion now may fit.
Less than 11" and you would be looking at a 10" rough something.

For a standard height bowl in 10", we sometimes sell the American Standard Cadet Pro line with the 10" tank. They come in round or elongated.

Standard height, elongated bowl, Cadet Pro with 10" tank.

 

[Novice71]

Different people are good at different things. I am clueless about plumbing, but I know what a ruler is and a wall. I just wasn't sure where to measure TO, from the wall. Now that you tell me, it's the bolts, I have 2 points for my measurement: the center of the bolts are approx. 10" from the wall; maybe another 3/4" max. if I account for the molding; it's hard to get into the space in order to see the ruler.

So it seems that I'm currently stuck with a 10" rough. If I were starting from scratch but the previous rough was in place, what would be necessary to change to 12"? A garage is below the bathroom.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Why not keep the ADA toilet? Your back and legs will and you and, you won't piss on the floor as often.

 

[Jadnashua]

HOw easy it would have been to move the plumbing depends on where the floor joists are. FOr them to have chosen a 10" rough-in rather than the more standard 12" one, my guess is that there's a joist in the way. So, you would need to reframe your floor, move the plumbing, fix the floor, then retile the messed up areas.

FWIW, MOST toilets are available in 12" rough-in. WHen you differ from that, your choices diminish radically. So, ideally, every rough-in would be 12", then, you'd have your choice of almost any toilet available on the market today.

The opening in the toilet flange is generally at least 3", and might be as much as 4". The outlet of the toilet is a bit over 2", so you can shift the toilet somewhat off-center by drilling some holes, or shifting the anchor points that hold the toilet and the waste will still go down the hole. IOW, depending on what's there, you might be able to make it work, but you'd then have less space behind the toilet.

 

[WJcandee]

I was working on a comprehensive post, but let me add my 2 cents.

You need to do an accurate measurement with a tape measure. Put the tape measure end at the wall, and read the other end of the tape at the center of the bolt caps. That isn't perfect, because you don't know if they have already moved it forward a bit, but it will suffice for our purposes. If you have 10-15/16", the toilet you wanted will probably fit without any adjustments. If you have a little less than that, your plumber, if he's smarter than your contractor, can probably cheat the thing forward a bit to make it fit.

To me, the contractor should have (1) known from what toilet you wanted that you needed a 12" rough-in; (2) made sure it would fit; and (3) given you the option of moving the closet flange while the floor was open. I assume that this is the old flange in its original position, not a new install. If it was a newly-installed flange, then he should have come to you earlier, not just replaced the toilet with something that you hadn't specified.

Regardless, you are where you are at this point. Me, I like the taller bowl, but if you don't, then we should see if we can help you. Take a photo of the current situation -- an establishing shot of the whole toilet, then take a shot with the ruler and the wall, and we will talk.

As to your question, generally-speaking if the floor was open, and no joists in the way, one would remove the old closet bend from the end of the drain pipe, run the pipe a little further in the opposite direction from the wall (or replace existing pipe with longer pipe), install a new closet bend, and voila. The layout of the existing plumbing and framing is the issue, but absent issues with either, it's not a big deal for an experienced plumber.

Here's how a closet bend (on top of which is mounted the flange), typically sits in the floor. (And typically doesn't mean much, because many setups are different.) So, you want 12" rather than 10", make the pipe it connects to longer so it's further away from the wall. Most likely, the thing was in there on 12", and the wall subsequently got moved out, OR the plumber set it at more or less 10" because there was a joist in the way. But you don't really know until you look at it from the top or bottom. Or, you just had a stupid, lazy contractor who screwed up.

As to the Unifit, it needs to plug into a specifically-designed Toto toilet. It doesn't make ALL totos fit on any old rough-in, but it DOES allow those specific (skirted-design) Totos to fit on 10", 12" and 14", using the exact same porcelain toilet-thing. Unfortunately, these days, all the skirted Totos are universal height. That's just the way the business is going because that's what most people have decided that they like.

 

[Novice71]

Why not keep the ADA toilet? Your back and legs will and you and, you won't piss on the floor as often.

I'd rather not get into my bathroom habits, but being female, I've never peed on the floor, which my legs currently don't reach from the ADA seat.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

To convert it would mean replacing the floor & modifying the framing underneath it, then re-piping the drain so the flange is in the proper position.
A 10" rough-in normally means it was less complicated to pay the extra for a 10" rough bowl than it would be to modify the structure for a standard 12" rough bowl.
Anything can be done if you are willing to spend enough money.

 

[Plumber69]

Supply 8 inches up 8 inches over from center of flange from finished floor