Shower handle sticking out too far

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by alphonse55, Dec 31, 2007.

  1. Davebutch

    Davebutch New Member

    Messages:
    16
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Me, too.

    It would have made me cry, too! Thank God I noticed this thread before I put up the wallboard around my shower valve. I installed the valve (Moen) per the spec, but dry-checked it with a piece of sheetrock and tile after installing the handle, and it did stick out much too far. I will recess the valve further. Thanks again!
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,802
    Location:
    New England
    There are NO shorter trims, only extensions if the valve is mounted in too far. To recess it, you'll need to move the valve.
  3. papaspudly

    papaspudly New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Easy Solution?

    I have the same problem, and after much yelling and swearing, I think I found an easy solution.

    You can buy a piece called an ESCUTCHEON EXTENSION (the one I bought is made by Moen). Do a Google search for the term and you'll find some distributors (the piece I found is called a Moen Escutcheon Extension 162 - Chrome).

    The Extension piece fits between the finished wall and the escutcheon plate, and pushes the escutcheon plate 0.5" from the wall. When installed, it should just look like the escutcheon plate is extra thick, and you will have swallowed up 0.5" of space between the handle and the plate.

    I saw that it came in 4 different finishes, and the one I found fits all 7" Moen single-handles.

    Once I recieve the piece and install it, I'll post a photo.
  4. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Moen

    That Moen valve is EXACTLY the way I would have installed it, i.e., about halfway between the maximum and minimum settings. That way I am protected against you making the wall a lot thicker, OR a lot thinner than you told me it would be. I also like it that way so the trim plate does not have to be removed to replace the core. (A side benefit is that the screws reach the threads without having to labor trying to get them started.)
  5. cmccowan

    cmccowan New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    London, Ontario
    Add me to the list of victims of the Moen shower kit from Home Depot (82910 Banburry in my case). The walls were out when it was installed and I now have it covered with drywall and tile. The gap is at least an inch.

    I think the take home message is please avoid this product.
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,802
    Location:
    New England
    No, the answer is to understand the installation instructions, and trial fit the trim if you aren't familiar with the thing prior to determining where to place the rough-in valve. This is something a pro learns early on, and a DIY'er may have to learn the hard way. Depending on your wall finish - tile, fiberglass, solid-surface, etc., the depth will differ. From the manufacturer's perspective, it the trim fits, it is acceptable. Personally, I don't like it sticking out at the maximum, but it's not 'wrong', as it is fully functional.
  7. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Chel in IL

    1. I hope you anchored that elbow for the spout better than your picture shows it.
    2. If a plumber put the tub in and out several times to get the valve in "exactly the right location", wherever that is, the customer would start looking at the clock and wonder how much it was costing him.
    3. We would have installed an adapter elbow rather than that copper and adapter method you used.
  8. daddio

    daddio New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    ca
    I seem to have this same problem of too much handle shaft showing when I trial fit. I have not tiled yet, but I cant move the valve back due to obstructions. Would a double layer of 1/2" hardibacker work?

    Has anybody tried those Moen escutcheon extender rings, and how do they look and work?
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    21,802
    Location:
    New England
    A second layer of cbu would work but it may mean some asymmetry you'd have to live with. All of the extender rings I've seen were to allow trim to fit if the valve was too far in the wall, not too far out. Not that they couldn't make one that would work that way.
  10. daddio

    daddio New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    ca
    Its called an Escutcheon Extension, Moen part 162.
    None of the suppliers around here are familiar with it and I have only seen it on line and mentioned in this thread.
    http://www.faucet-warehouse.com/Moen/part/oil-rubbed-bronze/162orb
    Anybody seen one?
    For $81 bucks for the ORB version, it had better fit perfectly and be beautiful!
  11. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple I love these ACO Shower Drains - Best in Class

    Messages:
    3,782
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Rough In depths

    Speaking from the side of General Contractor on these lay out points here goes my two bits.

    I have found that the rough in trims can be wrong. It happens too often to trust them. Some times you only get the rough in and you need to wait for the trim. So do you wait 3-5 weeks for the trim to nail it - maybe. If you are the type of client that wants it spot on it's the only way.

    Every plumber asks the wall thickness. Then sets that rough in in place. What I find happening is that there is no thought or care given to what the plumber has to do to do his job. No backer boards ready, no rough stock etc. In my opinion a plumber shouldn't have to show up on site with a skill saw and lumber.

    That cavity that is going to have the rough in installed should have a 2"x10" screwed to the back side of the wall cavity. Scraps of plywood to be used for furring strips ready for use.

    Give the Man/Woman the tools to nail it and make it easy and they most likely raise there game.

    It happens to often that these points are missed. I believe most times the fault lies in the project manager - the GC. I have learned these lessons only after building bathroom after bathroom.

    Get all your fixtures, un-package them and keep all the manuals together - make a book for the plumber. have your plumber put the trim and rough in togehter before the torch even gets brought up. Look for yourself at the adjustment amounts.

    My thoughts.

    Good luck.
  12. Fistor

    Fistor Geotechnical Engineer

    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Same problem for me, exactly...

    The issue here is, like some people mentioned, the "instructions" that came with the kit are pictorial only - which is fine, because like the other guy, I too am an engineer, and am used to reading drawings.

    The problem is, no dimensions whatsoever were included on my instruction sheet - it simply showed "thin wall" vs. "thick wall" (i.e. one with tile). No indication of setback of the valve body, etc. were given.

    I believe that the general consensus stated here is correct - Moen simply included an "extension" that is more than long enough to cover the variability in most "thick" walls, with the downside that it is generally too long to sit flush. As a DIY'er, I didn't have the experience to accurately judge the wall thickness vs. the seating of the extension within the handle, and now mine too sticks out.

    Question: would it not be possible to use a hacksaw to shorten this metal extension by a certain amount that it would then seat properly?
  13. daddio

    daddio New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    ca
    I doubt you could just cut it off shorter. There are some plastic inserts that go in the shaft.
    The solution seems to be either resetting the valve back in the wall or using that Moen part 162 escutcheon extension.
  14. daddio

    daddio New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    ca
    Anybody try Moen part 162 escutcheon extension to fix this problem?

  15. johncommode

    johncommode New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Location:
    Centreville, VA
    Another nice-looking alternative

    So I realize this thread has been going on for a couple years now, but I also ran into this problem. I didn't rush in buying the Moen extension plate. I instead went over to the local Home Depot and just started walking around looking for anything that I could mount on the front or back of the mounting plate and with a matching Satin Nickel finish.

    In the faucet repair isle I found a satin nickel lavatory mounting ring (http://204.202.233.236/details.asp?ProdID=85) that worked quite nicely. Using some adhesive caulk, I glued the included rubber washer to the mounting ring and then the ring to the mounting plate.

    The end result looks better than what I would have achieved with a correct install.

    Attached Files:

  16. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    IF Moen thinks the valve should not protrude more than 3/4", WHY do they design it so that you can have 1 1/2", or more, showing? Just make it so that it can only protrude from 1/4" to 3/4", and then design a bunch of "adapters" to use when the customer decides he wants a thicker, or thinner, finish on the wall.
  17. supermattthehero

    supermattthehero New Member

    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    virginia
    Just wanted to add that I had my contractor install a Moentrol shower valve, and was extremely pissed off when it was sticking out over 1", just like many of you. I ripped it all out and now am doing it again.

    This time I will try placing the valve so that the plaster ground is flush with the studs, since I have 1/2" durock and 1/4" tile with thinset, just as mrhutton suggests.
  18. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; This time I will try placing the valve so that the plaster ground is flush with the studs, since I have 1/2" durock and 1/4" tile with thinset

    And when you do that you are NOT following the Moen's installation instructions, which WE would when installing the valve. Otherwise WE might end up having to buy a stem extension because the handle does NOT fit the stem. And when we did that, the extension would be 1" long which means the handle would wind up almost EXACTLY where it started out before you redid the installation.
  19. supermattthehero

    supermattthehero New Member

    Messages:
    78
    Location:
    virginia
    That's great. Keep up that contractor-inspired attitude of "CYA." It's good for you and mediocre for the customer.

    If you haven't been keeping up with this thread, many of Moen's customers including myself don't like the way that the valve looks as installed in accordance with the instructions. So, we decide to do it over, or fix it. Thankfully, user "mrhutton" has researched the problem carefully and provided a solution that would appear to leave the valve functional and with the desired cosmetic result.

    It's really just a matter of preference. One thing you can be sure of though, as a plumber, is that if the customer isn't happy when you leave, it will be the last time he/she calls you.
  20. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,233
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    This is another, "I WANT my Moen valve to look like the one on the display board", when that one was NOT assembled according to Moen's specifications. Moen has a plastic "plate" that is designed to be flush with the finished wall, and WHEN it is installed that way, the handle looks EXACTLY like the ones shown in these pictures. YOU, the customer, can install it with the plate anywhere you want it, because if the handle doesn't fit, it is YOUR problem. IF I install the valve, I will use Moen's specifications, regardless of what you WANT, because otherwise I may have to furnish an extension which will place the handle even further out.
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