Shallow well

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Byron1

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Thank you Sammy, It will all fall in place. I am sure some of the questions are elementary too all of you, but please bare with me this is the only forum where to get great advice, and not feel tormented.

Byron



sammyhydro11 said:
In my opinion,not knowing what the consistency of the material is to screen sizing,i would stick with the 10 slot. If the material is too fine the 12 slot might allow too much fine sand in the screen. Maybe speedbump could order one and ship it to you. List price on one of those is around 275.00. That is a johnson screen. If your going to start pricing these screens, like everything else, you have to take in to consideration who makes them. Johnson is the best screen you can buy. A word to the wise,because of the depth to water, you need to stick with a 2" well on this application.

SAM
 

Wet_Boots

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Beyond the screening on the well point, there is a lot of sense in having a strainer on the outlet side of the pump. My customary strainer is a Vu-Flow spindown with a 100 mesh stainless screen. That keeps unwanted sand out of the sprinklers. (it is possible to find sand-tolerant sprinkler heads and valves, but the strainer lets you use almost anything, so it pays for itself)
 

Byron1

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Ok, So how would one go about to determine the sand from coarse to fine or very fine is there a quick and easy way. the sump pump bucket in the basement can be removed. I could dig down a few feet with post hole diggers and try to gauge the soil. Can I buy or round up some type of gauge or screen to determine if the sand is coarse or fine. There is no sign of rocks in the erea so I am hoping for all sand to pound the point in.

My father in law called there is a gentleman who lives around the corner from me who he thinks is on a point. I will swing by tomorrow to chat with him. How far away from my house is too far to gauge the water table. I know that is a loaded question. Oh yeah my father in law thinks 15-18 feet for water it is a running bet! I have no idea. So ill check out the lead and get back to you guys. Thank you for your input and most of all your time.

This is a great forum!
Byron
 

Sammyhydro11

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Its not the material up top that you have to be concerned about,its the material that the screen gets set into and above it. The higher the porosity of the material the higher the velocity of the water.When you start pumping water from a screened well the flow pattern takes shape of a whirl pool or cone(cone of depression) pulling water in from all sides. The center of the cone is where your well is and where the pumping water level is at.Basically in real fine sand you will have to set that screen fairly deep in order for that drawdown to stabilize at a certain flow rate so the shape of the cone is small up top but very deep.With real porous material you get less drawdown in the well becasue its traveling more freely in between the pours of the material so the cone up top is large but not very deep.Thats why its important to know what the consistancy of the material is so you can determine the depth of the screen and also the slot size. Didn't mean to bore you with technical crap but some people like it.

When drilling with augers the material is coming up from what ever depth your lead auger is at so you can constantly sample the material as it is coming up. Pounding a point in the ground, you are going at it blind and hoping you get into some porous stuff. Stand at the spot where you are going drive your well and if you can see the water in that creek from where you are,that's is where you are going to hit water give or take a couple of feet. You are going to want to set that screen atleast 10 to 15' beyond the water table. When you start to get close to where you think the water is,stop and test to see if you have water in the casing. You can use a string and a weight and bob it up and down in the well. When you hit water you will hear it. You also want to make sure your drive couplings are nice and tight. Between driving lengths i would tighten up the casing in the ground a bit to make sure you are keeping the joints below tight. The vibration from the pounding can loosen the joints.

SAM
 

Byron1

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Ah Sammy, it is making sense now. Thanks for the description on how the point works in soil and different conditions. Ill get back to you guys about the neighbor that has a possible point.

Byron





sammyhydro11 said:
Its not the material up top that you have to be concerned about,its the material that the screen gets set into and above it. The higher the porosity of the material the higher the velocity of the water.When you start pumping water from a screened well the flow pattern takes shape of a whirl pool or cone(cone of depression) pulling water in from all sides. The center of the cone is where your well is and where the pumping water level is at.Basically in real fine sand you will have to set that screen fairly deep in order for that drawdown to stabilize at a certain flow rate so the shape of the cone is small up top but very deep.With real porous material you get less drawdown in the well becasue its traveling more freely in between the pours of the material so the cone up top is large but not very deep.Thats why its important to know what the consistancy of the material is so you can determine the depth of the screen and also the slot size. Didn't mean to bore you with technical crap but some people like it.

SAM
 

Byron1

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Well well well, no pun intented. I went over and talked to the old timer he put in a driven well 20 years ago or longer from what I could gather. He said he was down 14-16 feet at most from ground level when he got water. which is good news, but! he hasnt used it for 10 years and cut it off and filled it in. The man lives about 250 yards diaganol from me and probably in elevation not more than 2 feet higher at his point of residence. I know that doesnt mean ill get water. But it makes me feel better. So I am eager to get started and hope to get water at a much closer level to the surface.

Let me know what you guys think!
Byron
 

Speedbump

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Things are looking up Byron. The screen will go out today, so look for it in a few days. Then keep us posted.

bob...
 

Byron1

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Will do. I am gonna get the pipe and couplers today, and start laying out the supplies and gear up. Oh yeah do some prep work and some some shoulder exercises.
 

Speedbump

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Things are looking up Byron. The screen will go out today, so look for it in a few days. Then keep us posted.

bob...
 

Byron1

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shallow well is in!

Hi all the shallow well is in, I went down 18 feet and got water. I now have several more questions on the next few steps. I have used the pitcher pump to draw up the water and it pumps good with lots of sand, but back breaking and hard work. What is the reasonalbe time frame for the well to pump clear, also can I use a gas powered pump to pump out the shallow well. It was sand all the way down, I can tell because it pounded down really easy it took only about a hour to drive it in. So once the well is cleared out ill drop the weight down and measure it how far up the string the water is, what would be good measurement. Also how do I calculate what my gpm is. Do I do this with the picther pump? Anyway look forward to your comments.
Byron
 

Sammyhydro11

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Byron,
i would drive that point so you have 10' of water over the screen. Where is the water level at now? You can use a gas pump to pump the well off.The time for the water to clear depends on how fine the material is and how big the slot size is on your screen. A well pumped sand free at a high rate will pump sand free at a low rate so try to pump it a level higher than what you are normaly going to use for. To check the flow rate get a five gallon bucket and time it to see how long it takes to fill. Take that time and divide it into 60 and then multiply it by five. Whatever you come up with from that is your GPM. You definitely want to make sure that screen is plenty deep beyond the water table. The water level might be high now but come drought season it can drop. I always say the best time to put in a new well is during a drought.

SAM
 

Byron1

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Sammy, thank you for the tips i'll get to it in couple of days. There is a big storm heading our way for now. I am excited for making it this far. I'll measure the water level tomorrow and see what it reads. I'll get back to you guys tomorrow or in a few days.
Byron
 

Byron1

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Water in the pipe

I have 30 inches of water in the pipe. I have a total lengh of 18 feet of pipe in the ground. What should I do next
Byron
 

Speedbump

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30 inches is about the length of your well point isn't it? Did you do the bucket test yet? Is the handle of that Pitcher Pump bouncing back up after you push it down or are you getting a good full stroke and a good flood of water coming out of the spout?

I think your going to have to knock another pipe into the ground.

bob...
 

Byron1

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Hi Bob, no handle bounce back, one good solid stroke produce good water with sand.
Byron
 

Speedbump

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That's great, I wouldn't pump anymore from there, I would knock in another piece of pipe. Hopefully there is more water bearing sand below where you are now. By knocking in another you may raise the water level and/or at least get more water in the pipe.

Keep us up to date.

bob...
 

Byron1

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Ok I drove the pipe in another 3 feet. I hit something solid and cant drive the pipe in any deeper, I did bang on it with the post driver with no more success. The water is up the pipe 5 1/2 feet. What do you guys think? The well is down now about 21 feet total. I did pump about 5 gallons with the pitcher pump just to see how it looks, it produced water with sand. My back hurts, so i'll continue when I can borrow my buddys gas pump. Any more suggestions would be great!
Byron
 

Sammyhydro11

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It would be nice if you could get that screen deeper but i guess you will have to deal with the depth its at. Get that gas pump and do a pump test.

SAM
 
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