Shallow well

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog' started by Byron1, Apr 4, 2007.

  1. Byron1

    Byron1 New Member

    Messages:
    35
    This is a great site, I have been reading all the posts and replies about shallow wells. I am interested in putting in a driven well to water the lawn. I live in upstate NY Saratoga Springs. The Idea I have is to install a shallow well in the basement, there are provisions already in place for a sump pump (a plastic type bucket in the floor) The basement is dry and never had a problem with moisture. I would like to cut a holt in the bottom of the bucket and use this as a starting point since I am already down 8+ feet. The soil conditions on top are really sandy down to about 8 feet not sure after that.

    My questions are
    1 The screen size for the points around here at all the local shops are 80 guage. 1 1/4" So my choices are limited unless I order one. Most are of the 3 foot variety, but I found one that is a 5 footer. The 5 foot point would be my first choice, I think!

    2 The couplings. I know I need to use a drive coupling, can I take off the drive coupling when it is in the ground and install a regular coupling, or do I need to use a new drive coupling for every new section of pipe. I have a home brew post pounder and a 8 pound sledge.

    3 For pipe should I use black iron or galvinized pipe hot dip or cold and what the heck is the difference!

    I have tried to find some of the old timmers around to get there input as to how far down ill have to go to get water. Nobody around here is on a piont we have city water. The terrane slopes down hill from my house to a creek that is about 150 yards at most away and is about 30 feet lower. I dont know what that means just thought id through that in there?

    Any suggestions are welcome to help keep me on the right track.
    As I get going on this project I am sure ill be asking many more questions.
    Thank You
    Byron
  2. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,317
    Location:
    New Hampshire
    The first thing I would do is ask around and see if anyone has gotten water at depths where a driven well would work. Also, do you have rock at shallow depths, which would prevent driving a point?
  3. Byron1

    Byron1 New Member

    Messages:
    35
    No rocks. I have asked every where I go even on the radio where I am a ham. Nobody has any info.
    Byron
  4. Wet_Boots

    Wet_Boots Sprinkler Guy

    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    Metro NYC
    There are building codes to consider, when thinking of installing a shallow well point indoors. I've seen official language that expressly forbids having this sort of water supply in a dwelling, and if push came to shove, the homeowner in violation doesn't have a leg to stand on.
  5. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Hi Byron,

    Your right to want the longer point. Eighty gauze is equivelent to a seven slot screen which would give far more water than the gauze screen would in the proper aquifer. Either one is a very fine screen and will screen our very fine sand. If you knew what the sand looked like you could select the proper screen for the job. This is not a luzury with driven wells though. The sump pit may not be a good place to start in case you ever need to install a sump pump. You can bust a small hole in the basement floor anywhere that is convenient to install the well.

    Trial and error is usually the method since nobody seems to know what to expect in your area any more than I would. I do recommend the galvanized 1-1/4" pipe, drive couplings at every joint, pipe butted together at every joint and a post driving hammer over the sledge. You will just break things with a sledge hammer.

    When you get it in, get with me and I will sell you a great pump for the job. Be sure to have a Pitcher Pump to check for water at each 5' joint as they go in.

    Good luck,

    bob...
    KF4MM
    73
  6. Byron1

    Byron1 New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Yes, I have called city hall for info, as long as it is only for watering a lawn not a problem, I have also spoken to the cheif building inspector about it as well. no problem.
    Byron
  7. Byron1

    Byron1 New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Speedbump, the 5 foot point is what I thought would be a good choice. And thanks for the coupling advie. And the local rental yard has the post driver with the guide in the middle, mine doesnt have the guide, is it really that big of a concern.
    73's
    Byron KC2KOH
  8. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Sounds like your depth to water or static water level is going to be around 30' using the creek as a referance.If your water level is that deep you are going to need a jet assembly in that well so I would go with 2" galvanized pipe so it will fit in the well.You will need drive couplings on every length of pipe you drive. Also go with a 10 slot V Wire stainless well screen. Stay away from those gauze or mesh types they dont have as much entrance area as the V wire screens. Check out johnson well screens on the net to get a better idea. You have to check with your local board of health about where you can put this well.

    SAM
  9. Wet_Boots

    Wet_Boots Sprinkler Guy

    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    Metro NYC
    If the water level is going to be 30 feet, then there won't be any great advantage to installing a point indoors. That extra few feet means less when you use a deep-well pump on the point. You might appreciate having the vertical room to set up a drop-weight rig to pound in the point.
  10. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Even with the depth to water at 22' from the basement floor its hard to say what your drawdown is going to be like so i would be prepared to use a deep well jet assembly. I would go with wetboots suggestion and pound the point out side. Your neighbors will see what your doing and hopefuly will want to get in on it which means less pounding for you. Thats a hunch but it would be nice!

    SAM
  11. Byron1

    Byron1 New Member

    Messages:
    35
    I am interested in how a drop point rig is constructed, If it is easy to construct I would consider building one. My buddies are willing to help install the driven point there will be 3 of us.
    Byron
  12. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Yes it is a big concern. If you hit the pipe with a sledge hammer you won't hit it square each time. This is what breaks threads. The slide hammer (for a lack of another word) hits the same way each time and the hit is square putting equal force on all areas of the pipe and threads. It is also safer. The one I built recently has a 1" solid bar that goes into the pipe and is long enough that the stroke up and down won't allow the bar to come out of the pipe while driving. You could impale yourself with a shorter one on a big stroke.

    I have about 20 three foot SS slotted well points here if your interested. I have 10, 12, 18 and maybe one bigger one. I would do like Sammy said and stay with the 10 slot. A 12 or larger might be too big for the material you encounter and you would have a sand pumper.

    bob...
  13. Byron1

    Byron1 New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Ok so ill rent the slide hammer, and the 10 slot, should that be a 2 inch diameter or 1 1/4 in the previous threads it was suggested to use 2 inch pipe. I am interested in the 10 slot on your recommendation. Also The 80 gauge SS point I found at the local store is a 5 footer. What is your price for the 10 slot 3 footer, what is your opinion about the length of the point to use.

    Byron


    I have about 20 three foot SS slotted well points here if your interested. I have 10, 12, 18 and maybe one bigger one. I would do like Sammy said and stay with the 10 slot. A 12 or larger might be too big for the material you encounter and you would have a sand pumper.

    bob...[/QUOTE]
  14. Wet_Boots

    Wet_Boots Sprinkler Guy

    Messages:
    798
    Location:
    Metro NYC
    It's a 2-inch point, because you'll be using a convertible jet pump, with a packer assembly inside the point. This is more expensive than a shallow-well jet pump, but the only practical way to deal with deeper water tables. (this expense may be one reason why you don't see neighbors with well points)
  15. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    With the 10 slot you will get around 10 to 15 gpm in a good vein. That's pretty good for a 1-1/4" or 2" well. The two inch wells I drilled used 1-1/4" screens so they could be pulled and replaced when they plugged up. Doing one that way takes a lot more work and is much better done with a drilling rig. Since you don't have the rig. You would be driving the point attached to the pipe. I can say, driving a 2" is going to be much harder than driving the 1-1/4". And it all depends on what kind of material your going through.

    The screens I have I will sell for $45.00 each. I believe they usually bring around $75.00 or more these days. Sammy would know better than me. I haven't used one for over 25 years. These belonged to my dad when he retired and he wanted me to dispose of them.

    bob...
  16. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    I just saw your question about building a rig.

    Have it drilled professionally. It would be a lot easier.

    bob...
  17. Byron1

    Byron1 New Member

    Messages:
    35
    The 10 slot screens you have, that is the point its self correct. and it is a 3 footer. Is it the 1 1/4 pipe. I did go to your web site looking for some info, I couldnt find and points. What would be shipping to 12866 on the 10 slot. Thanks to all of you who are helping me I am learning a great deal.
    Byron


    The screens I have I will sell for $45.00 each. I believe they usually bring around $75.00 or more these days. Sammy would know better than me. I haven't used one for over 25 years. These belonged to my dad when he retired and he wanted me to dispose of them.

    bob...[/QUOTE]
  18. speedbump

    speedbump Previous member

    Messages:
    4,540
    Location:
    Riverview, Fl.
    Yes its a three footer, but all I have is a 12 slot. It's two thousands of an inch larger opening than the 10. I also have some 10 slot extensions that can be added to the already 3 footer to make around 6 foot of screen area. Shipping is $6.00.

    The screens have either a point on one end and male threads on the other or male threads on both ends if they are extensions.

    bob...
  19. sammyhydro11

    sammyhydro11 Previous member

    Messages:
    709
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    In my opinion,not knowing what the consistency of the material is to screen sizing,i would stick with the 10 slot. If the material is too fine the 12 slot might allow too much fine sand in the screen. Maybe speedbump could order one and ship it to you. List price on one of those is around 275.00. That is a johnson screen. If your going to start pricing these screens, like everything else, you have to take in to consideration who makes them. Johnson is the best screen you can buy. A word to the wise,because of the depth to water, you need to stick with a 2" well on this application.

    SAM
  20. Byron1

    Byron1 New Member

    Messages:
    35
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