Need to install waterless p trap from hepvo help

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by Mike2187, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. Mike2187

    Mike2187 New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Maryland
    I am in the midst of remodeling my bathroom and exposed the plumbing. I wanted to replace the old lead P trap. I called in a plumber and he said that a new p trap would poke through the hole of the ceiling downstairs (2nd floor bath remodel). The clearance is too tight. The plumber is well familiar with these Levitt homes.

    I did some research on waterless p traps and found the HepVo.

    http://www.drainmaster.com/hepvo.html

    It will fit in the adjacent bay and when I called the company, the rep said that it can be mounted as far as 3 feet away from the drain. I less than half that. However a vent pipe is posing a problem for placement.
    [​IMG]

    Water flows from left to right. Top pipe is vent.

    I did this:
    [​IMG]

    The HepVo will be mounted just left of the tee.
    Will this work? Should I make the tee a wye? Does the tee have to be under the vent at all times?

    Thanks in advance
  2. dlarrivee

    dlarrivee New Member

    Messages:
    1,172
    Location:
    Canada
    Wow...

    Now I've seen everything.

    What does your inspector say when you tell him you don't think you need a proper trap?
  3. Mike2187

    Mike2187 New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Maryland
    Thank you for your helpful post.

    The waterless trap is slated for approval in 2015. Over 7 million homes in Europe currently us them. Here are three Brits testing the back pressure on the thing.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsnyD63Y39s&feature=youtube_gdata_player


    [video=youtube;wsnyD63Y39s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsnyD63Y39s[/video]

    I called the company and specifically asked about inspectors. He advised that technology is surpassing code and plumbers hate change. He further advised that it will pass inspection but you have to meet with the inspector and show him the device. They will pass it under their exception or miscellaneous clause. Not too sure of the word he used at the moment.

    I just need to know if it's vented wrong.

    Also they installed 1800 of these things at the newly built world cup soccer stadium in south Africa.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 10, 2011
  4. dlarrivee

    dlarrivee New Member

    Messages:
    1,172
    Location:
    Canada
    So the salesman did his job...?
  5. Jerome2877

    Jerome2877 In the Trades

    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    BC
    That product is for RV's, it will not pass any North American code for use in a house. With an RV your not dealing with dangerous sewer gas, just bad smell from a holding tank. What happens when your drain clogs? A little hair and it wll clog and probably cause the device to fail.
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,636
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    RVs do NOT have any plumbing codes so you can use whatever you want to in them. This thing would NEVER pass any code requirement, and I do not know what would be magical about the year 2015 that it would suddenly be code compliant then. It has a "diaphragm" inside it which will create a restriction, which is one code violation. The trap's "seal" depends on the diaphragm opening to let water out and closing to keep air out the other way, which is code violation #2. It MUST be in an accessible location to replace the diaphragm when it hardens from age and no longer flexes, which means it CANNOT be installed under floor or in any other closed area. If you could get that thing approved by ANY city or inspector, you might as well just use a check valve which does the same thing, but does it more reliably. Additionally, it is "tubing size" which means you would have to use slip joint fittings between the tub and the "trap", which would NOT be one of your greatest ideas. Your real problem is that you are eliminating a brass, NOT lead, "P" trap. A brass trap is a lot "shorter" than one of any other material.
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  7. Mike2187

    Mike2187 New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Maryland
    It is a lead p trap I am replacing

    [​IMG]

    It will be accessible through the ceiling of the first floor (second floor bathroom).

    The slip joint does concern me however. Do they even make brass p traps anymore? I also considered raising the floor of the bathroom but then I would have a ridiculously canted marble transfer piece between hall and bathroom.
  8. Mike2187

    Mike2187 New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Maryland
    It is a lead p trap I am replacing

    [​IMG]

    It will be accessible through the ceiling of the first floor (second floor bathroom).

    The slip joint does concern me however. Do they even make brass p traps anymore? I also considered raising the floor of the bathroom but then I would have a ridiculously canted marble transfer piece between hall and bathroom.

    What about adding a sureseal? Is this a check valve?

    http://www.thesureseal.com/
  9. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    NO, NO, NO and NO is the answer to all the questions. If there is another question, the answer to that is also NO.

    IAPMO will approve a ham sandwich if you pay them enough, but I cant imagine them approving that waterless trap. It will drain slowly, will clog almost immediately with the hair in a tub or lav drain. Ditto for the trap seal.
    You just need to bite one of these:

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2011
  10. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,005
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    One of the hotels in Bellevue used self venting fittings in the cast iron piping of the building. When I stayed there a few years later, I could hear the tub trap being sucked dry.
    I was not impressed.
    And yet, somehow it had become code. I guess it worked when it was new, but then things start to gunk up and then they quit doing the job.
    But then it's your bathroom, and if it quits doing the job, you can always replace it.
    A normal p-trap costs very little, why would you spend more money for something mechanical that will fail over time?
    The vent you installed should have been a wye fitting. Previously you had a backwards santee for venting. The trouble with copying old plumbing sometimes, is you have no idea if the previous installation met code the first time, and then there have been improvements over the years, fixing mistakes that old codes allowed.
  11. Mike2187

    Mike2187 New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Maryland
    Thanks jimbo. Looks like I'll half to bite it. Ugh. How fitting that a bullet usually is brass and copper.

    Thanks Terry for answering my venting question.
  12. Mike2187

    Mike2187 New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Maryland
    P trap will have to poke through ceiling. Maybe I'll have someone box out a section in ceiling. Idk
  13. jimbo

    jimbo Plumber

    Messages:
    8,997
    Location:
    San Diego
    It doesn't show well in the photo, but notice in 'properties' that this is a SILVER bullet!
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,636
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    Get a brass "sweat P trap" and it will be almost the same dimensions as that lead trap. I cannot imagine someone, even then, using a lead trap with a copper drain system.
  15. Mike2187

    Mike2187 New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    Maryland
    I found a cast brass one on ****. I hope this will work.

    [​IMG]
  16. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,636
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    quote; One of the hotels in Bellevue used self venting fittings in the cast iron piping of the building.

    I assume it was a So-Vent system. If the lead trap worked the brass one should also, especially a 1 1/2" one.
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