Need a 14" rough-in toilet

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by Lakee911, Oct 7, 2007.

  1. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

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    Hey Folks,
    I'm thinking of replacing my Eljer (?) toilet. It comes on and runs every hour or two (it has a new flush valve too) and it has a small non-leaking crack near the flush handle.

    I've heard great things about the Toto toilets, the Drake and Ultramax in particular, but I have a 14" rough-in. My current toilet is a 12" and there is a huge gap behind the tank which I'm not crazy about.

    Toto has some that fit the 14" rough in but they are more expensive, no? Is there some requirement about the supply valve location too?

    I'd like to replace mine for <$400 if possible. What are my options?

    Thanks,
    Jason
  2. JCturboT

    JCturboT New Member

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  3. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

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    what's msrp? thanks.
  4. JCturboT

    JCturboT New Member

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    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Check with your local plumbing supply store but last time I checked with mine it was quite a bit less than $400 MSRP.

    Jeff
  5. patrick88

    patrick88 Plumber

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    Location:
    Webster Ma.
    I dont believe a 14" ruff water closet is much more than a 12" ruff. I would give a call to the supply houses. I would install a toto before I install Gerber any day.
  6. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    MSRP manufacturer's suggested retail price.

    Of the Toto's, the Vespin is a two-piece that uses the Unifit adapter, which is available in 14". Don't remember what I paid for mine, but it was a color, so it was more than the white. Don't think it was more than $400, even with the color, but can't be sure. The water supply must be a little wider than standard, but yours could be okay. If you check their website, you can download the spec sheet which shows where it should be.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2008
  7. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

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    The new Soiree also uses the Unifit adaptor, so it too can work for a 14" rough in.
  8. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

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    Thanks for the models. I'll look in to it. Anyone else have that gerber?

    As for the comment about the 14" not being much more than the 12", well, it's 2" more! :D Just kidding. Ya, I don't think that they're much more if I can find them. Usually I don't have as much of selection for that size.

    My supply is on the floor, 1" from the wall, and located 8 inches from the center of the toilet. The spec sheet says it needs to be on the wall and 5", if I recall correctly from the center. So, will that work?

    After discussing with the boss, I'm not sure we want to spend the money if we don't have to. Still though, the existing cracked tank really bothers me. It could be pouring out on the floor right now and I don't even know it!

    I'm going to try to visit a Toto distributer soon and look at them. Maybe they can tell me where they're installed in town and I can take a test drive. :)

    Thx
    Jason
  9. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    The base of the Carlyle is 12-1/4" at the rear, so other than needing a longer supply hose, coming from the floor, it should fit. Most of the skirted models are similar.
  10. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

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    All of those Toto toilets that can do the 14" rough in are like $450 + $50 for the adapter + no seat. That's getting way too much for my budget. So, I'm thinking maybe that Gerber but there is no dealers nearby. :(
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    If you have a 14" rough, the cheapest solution is to install a standard 12" rough toilet.
    With most toilets, the only difference between the 12" and the 14" is a thicker tank.
    The bowl sets in the same place regardless.
    So you can just as easily install any 12" rough toilet.

    The only bowls that don't set out there, are certain ones (TOTO with Unifit adapters) that can be pulled back 2", but it cost more to do it that way too.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.
    This bowl was installed on a 13-1/2" rough-in using the 14" Unifit adapter.
    The water shutoff can be as close as 5-1/2" to the left of center, unless it's higher off the floor, and then it can be even closer to center.
    This shutoff had been replaced with a new 1/4 turn valve with brass nipple through the wall.
    Installation was by James Love of Love Plumbing & Remodel 206-949-5683
    In some of the older Seattle homes, the old toilets had been wall mounted tank toilets.
    Those typically are 14" rough-in and need a flange repair to use standard closet bolt connections at the flange.
    Everything is on the truck for that.
    The Vespin comes with a standard 12" adapter or you can order a 10" or 14" adapter depending on your rough-in distance.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  12. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

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    Ya, that's a bummer, Terry.

    I have a 12" now and its got like a 2" gap, or more in the back. I feel like its out in the middle of the room. It's unfortunate that I've had both the ceiling below out and the floor ripped up in the bathroom and I didn't correct this. :(

    I'm not sure if I should get the 12" Drake or the 14" Gerber. Opinions?
  13. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    The Cadet 3 is well rated for flushing, is available in 14" rough, and should be in your budget range.

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/Assets/pdfs/as/specsheet/SpecSheet_1811.pdf

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/Assets/pdfs/as/specsheet/SpecSheet_1808.pdf

    http://www.americanstandard-us.com/Products/productDetail.aspx?area=bath&cat=3&col=&prodID=1807

    The tank is given as 1" +/- 1/4" from the wall when roughed in at the specified distance. (See the first two links.)

    The round bowl version will not stick out as far into the room (30 1/4") as the elongated version (32 1/4").
  14. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    14"

    The only additional cost for a 14" toilet with most models is the 2" deeper tank for installation on a 12" bowl, and that is a fairly minor cost, unless like Kohler they decide to punish your for wanting one.
  15. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

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    1,328
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Thanks for the links. That's unfortunate that it's only a 12" bowl with a deeper tank because then it's really just eating up space in the room.

    The front of my existing Eljer is 28-1/2" from the wall. I would like an elongated model, so that would come to 32" but it shouldn't be too bad. The tank and bowl are both 1" taller than mine.

    What is this new "New Speed Connect tank to bowl coupling system"? Will the tank be affixed securely? My current tank wobbles and it's a little disconcerting . :(

    Thanks everyone!

    Jason
  16. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    The speed connect should be fine.

    14" options with elongated bowl.

    Elongated Cadet 12" bowl with thick tank puts you out 32-1/4" from wall
    Elongated Cadet 12" bowl with normal tank puts you out 32-1/4" from wall

    Elongated Toto Drake with 12" bowl puts you out 30-3/4" from the wall.
    Elongated Toto with 14" Unifit adapter puts you out 28-3/4" from the wall. Models here could include, Vespin, Carrollton, Carlyle, Soiree, Guinevere, Pacifica, Carolina

    Now you need to decide whether the gap behind the tank is more important than the space you are losing in front of the bowl.
    I've installed some toilets with 14" adapters that pull the bowl back to the wall, and they do take up a lot less space in the bathroom.
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  17. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

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    Oh, the drake can do Unifit???
  18. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    No, the Drake does not use the Unifit adapter. If you use the 12" Drake, you'll just have the extra 2" behind.

    If you shop around, the Vespin shouldn't cost all that much more than a Drake. That does use the Unifit. Hassle (to me anyways), is it comes with the 12" one, and (at least in the places I've looked), you can exchange it for a 14"...you have to buy it, then you've got a piece you can't use, or probably even sell to someone. It would be nice if it was separate, then you buy the one you need.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2008
  19. Lakee911

    Lakee911 I&C Engineer (mostly WWTP)

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    Oh I see...I misread that. Shoot.

    I see that on Toto's website, the MSRP cost of the Drake is much more than the price that Terry is selling at. I've got three Toto dealers here in town. I'll visit them this week.

    Thanks,
    Jason
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