Need 3 new toilets

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by HoneySuckle, Nov 6, 2006.

  1. HoneySuckle

    HoneySuckle New Member

    Messages:
    126
    What would you all recommend? One at least must be ADA height, one is for a smallish bathroom so we might not find a comfortable fit with elongated. Is it true that round bowls are out?

    Our home is 18 years old and we're replacing crane toilets. No problems so far with them except that they use too much water. What do we need to know before replacing these toilets? Do we measure the existing ones? Hubby has removed toilets before to lay new flooring so he could easily set the new ones up but what tools and other things we should consider?
  2. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Location:
    Central Florida
    Most critical consideration is the "rough-in" dimension for your existing toilets. This is the distance from the center of the toilet's outlet to the rear wall -- usually the same as the distance from the 2 bolts holding the toilet down to the wall. The most common rough-in is 12", but 10" and 14" toilets are available.

    Other than that, it's largely a personal choice. Read Terry's report on low-flow toilets (http://www.terrylove.com/crtoilet.htm) for a good overview. Many of the forum participants prefer Toto toilets, although there are some rebels. I bought a Toto Drake (ADA, elongated) largely because of what I read on this forum, and am very pleased.

    As for tools, etc., if hubby has removed and re-set toilets, he's probably got everything he needs. I would plan on replacing the riser pipes with flexible lines, if the old ones are chrome or copper, and you'll need new wax rings, but otherwise it's pretty straightforward. If all the stop valves work OK and turn freely, you can continue to use them, but if they need to be replaced, now is the time.

    Good luck!
  3. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,395
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Round bowls are still used. Terry's Report has the specs for everything. The elongated doesn't take up much more room than a round, but it's largely your choice. I'd certainly recommend the Toto, but whatever you do, avoid the "builder specials" at the box stores. They are mostly junk. A toilet can almost be considered a once in a lifetime purchase, so get a good one to begin with and avoid the problems.
  4. HoneySuckle

    HoneySuckle New Member

    Messages:
    126
    Thank you for the recommendations. Is the AS cadet 3 of lesser quality if purchased from HD? I read something about cracks and other problems someone had with theirs on TL's site.

    I didn't know about elongated seats until recently and still don't understand why it's becoming so popular. CAn you explain the benefits? Can I purchase a round toilet that's also ADA height?
  5. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

    Messages:
    7,395
    Location:
    Yakima WA
    I would not buy a toilet from a box store. AS has had some bad reviews, so I would avoid them. The Toto Drake comes ADA height in both elongated and round bowls. According to the spec sheet in Terry's report, the elongaged bowl is 28" long and the round is 26-1/2". I can't imagine the 1-1/2" difference would be that important and the elongated bowl is a better choice for both sexes.
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    15,412
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    We sell and install thousands of toilets every year.
    It's hard to beat the quality control of the oldest and largest plumbing fixture company in the world, Toto.

    We sell all the brands, but we don't like having to pick over boxes to find enough good parts to complete the package.
    Time is money, and nobody pays you for running back to the wholesaler and getting replacements.

    Most of the one-piece Toto toilets are made in the US, Atlanta Georgia.
    Even the imports they bring in are good.

    When it comes to quality, they are the Lexus of the plumbing industry.
  7. Spokaneman

    Spokaneman New Member

    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Spokane WA
    I bought two Totos from Terry and couldn't be happier. Installation of the Unifit adapter is a snap. I had another brand of LF toilets and they were a major pain. You do get what you pay for.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2008
  8. Mike50

    Mike50 DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    699
    Location:
    Southern California
    One reason the elongated is better is a guy thing.
    Much easier to hit the bowl from standing position.
    An appreciated luxury to be sure.

    IMO toilets are an item Not to skimp on if at all possible.
    It just doesn't cost that much more to get a great toilet like Toto for example that will last you a very long time.

    Unless the plan is to find the cheapest one available. Thats a whole different mindset and the end result is predictable.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2006
  9. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,412
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Mike,
    I like that, "the end result is predictable."

    Others,
    Elongated bowls: Men prefer them.

    Years ago, I found that if I could convince the woman that she would be doing something nice for her husband by buying elongated,

    The result was that the husband would call back and order two more elongated toilets. Almost no man would go back to round after using elongated.
  10. Mike50

    Mike50 DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    699
    Location:
    Southern California
    I mean C'mon folks name another appliance you have a more meaningful relationship with.
    *Water heater-Nope, *Refrigerator-Naw, *Hot water heater-No way, *Washer-Dryer-No, *Air conditioner/Heater-No

    Be good to your true friend-The TOILET! Not to mention-It's always there when you feel lousy. Step UP-buy a great Toilet....:D
  11. HoneySuckle

    HoneySuckle New Member

    Messages:
    126
    Is the Toto Drake a good buy? Terry, does it matter if someone buys their Toto from you or a plumbing supply establishment in their area?:confused:

    The argument about elongated bowls has gone over my head. If my father, four brothers, husband and sons have managed all their lives with round bowls, why would I need to change to elongated now? It seems to me that this is a new fad hitting the industry to get us consumers to run out and buy the latests. I mean this with respect and even though you guys say there will be better hits, I can't understand spending the extra to outfit my house on that. What about keep the extra area there clean? I heard that elongated is uncomfortable for women as well. Any ladies in the house?
  12. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,053
    Location:
    Omaha, NE
    In addition to more "aiming space" at the back of the bowl, elongated bowls have more room up front, which is helpful for men when sitting, for hopefully obvious reasons. I'm not sure why this would in any way be uncomfortable for a woman.
  13. Mike50

    Mike50 DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    699
    Location:
    Southern California
    Terry I'm sure will address your comments but I'd like to say something here.

    I don't believe what I read on the net. I never heard of Toto before visiting this site around 9 months ago. I was naturally suspicious with all these plumbers raving about them...right?

    So..I verified the claims,awards and data from independent 2nd & 3rd party sources. They were all accurate.

    I also visited a very very high end-big ticket designer showroom looking for some brass hardware. I was there quite a while and used the mensroom. The toilet was a Toto. Not sure what model.
    That was another endorsement.

    As a consumer, I have no idea if Toto is the best toilet on the market or not. I do know this--if I had to do it all over again I'd have 2 Toto's not one.

    Toto is the largest manufacturer of toilets in the world-previously unknown to me.

    Based on my research I can safely say that considering the engineering-materials-cutting edge technology-price-design-reliability...

    I simply couldnt find anything better for my needs,
    Or I would have bought it instead.

    I looked at hundreds of models from various manufacturers.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2006
  14. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,412
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    There is no difference in comfort when you are sitting, between a regular seat and an elongated seat.

    You sit in the same place. Your feet and knees are in the same place.
    Your behind is in the same place.

    There is a little more room at the front though.
    Some men prefer that little bit of room in front.
    And some women do too.

    But like I said before,

    "she would be doing something nice for her husband"

    I just think that we should treat all people that way.

    All commerical bathrooms spec out elongated.

    The reason for regular bowls?
    Your contractor saved a buck, at your expense.

    Is there a quality difference between Toto and American Standard?
    Yes.
    Should you care?
    Most people do care.
    I know I do, I warranty my installation for one year.
    It makes a big difference to me.

    I suggest that people buy toilets locally. I handle the Seattle area fairly well.
    My customers range from Vancouver WA to Vancouver BC Canada.
    They come From Montana and the Olympic Peninsula .

    If you are somewhere else, I won't be selling to you.
    Well, unless you are in LA or Brooklyn.

    All that being said, there are pleny of people that just go to the home center and buy a toilet in a box. To them, it's not that big a deal.
    I won't be losing any sleep over it.
    And plungers are cheap there too.
  15. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

    Messages:
    2,736
    Location:
    Central Florida
    Elongated bowls for the ladies

    I've read that ladies prefer the elongated bowls because it's easier to finish the job, if you get my drift. Doesn't matter much to us men, because we don't usually have to apply TP after peeing, but ladies are said to like the extra room in front. It's not something you probably think much about, but the next time you're using a public rest room with elongated toilets, pay attention during the whole process and notice how or if the elongated bowl makes any difference.

    Maybe we need a POLL to quantify the results :confused: .
  16. SteveW

    SteveW DIY Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,053
    Location:
    Omaha, NE

    Good point; similarly, for men, if you pay attention you quickly see why commercial toilet seats have a cutout in front.
  17. Mad Plumber

    Mad Plumber Mad Skills

    Messages:
    221
    Do womin know whats men has to tuck in?

    Men know waht gets tucked in!

    An when you have to tuck it in you are touching the inside of the bowl, gross!

    If wiman had to tuck it in, they would be changin it.
    I guess that HoneySuckle's men better hop to it and not complain.

    Me, I get thte bowl I like, the longer one, cuz, I am a man.
  18. rudytheplbr

    rudytheplbr 36 Journeyman Plbr

    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Elongated vs. round W.C.

    Dear Terry,
    I am a 30 yr plumber, and I'm one of those anachronisms that believes water should Flow through a plumbing (DWV) system. Therefore I am wondering why you recommend a W.C. with 2- 90deg turns at the bottom and outlet.

    There are W.C.s on the market that have a 135deg turn at the top of the flush tube and a 45deg at the outlet. It seems to me that this provides better flow for flushed substance.

    Curious,
    Rudy
  19. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,313
    Location:
    New England
    Have you ever watch a Toto flush? The combination of the siphon jet and the large trapway, things just whosh away.
  20. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,412
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Rudy,
    I'm curious like Jim,
    Have you ever seen a Toto up there in Alaska?

    I ship them on barges there, and my customers sure love them.

    I use Alaska Marine Lines for most of the shipping.

    Here are some comments about the double 90 on the Toto.
    [​IMG]


    I am a civil engineer (water, sewer, flooding, paving). At my office the landlord recently installed a Toto toilet, and I am effusive about it! I don't know which model it is, but it is amazing, and in inspecting it, I can see it has a double siphon below the bowl. The only thing I can't understand is why there aren't more double siphon toilets around, unless Toto has a patent on the double-siphon concept.
    Tom Haws, P.E.
    HUBBARD ENGINEERING
    Civil Engineers and Land Surveyors
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2006
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