Multiple problems after replacing fill and flush valve

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by noob666, Nov 2, 2013.

  1. noob666

    noob666 New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Ontario
    I had a crack in the overflow tube and some water hammer when toilet tank refilled. Replaced both items with new gaskets and washers. Water hammer was gone and toilet fills up faster. I know the chain for flapper isn't getting stuck, water isn't leaking on floor. Before I did all this the toilet would flush perfectly every time.

    Here are my issues, the toilet tank keeps filling itself up every hour or so if not flushed/used. My other issue is I sometimes have a weak flush/hardly none at all even if I manually fill tank up to fill line. But if I flush again after the tank fills up, it will flush normally no problems. I have tried different flappers as some have suggested and still the same issue.

    My question is since water is going into the bowl slowly. Could this be the source of the weak flush?
    Could my leak be at the flush valve? If so should I maybe give the 2 screws/bolts holding tank to bowl an extra turn?
    I have a numbered dial on my flapper, will this help with flushing? its currently on a 7

    toilet.jpg
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2013
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,401
    Location:
    IL
    Problem could be flapper valve with seat. Turn off water. If water continues to drop a couple inches with time, I suspect flapper or seat. Feel seat. Replace flapper.

    Hard to tell. Is the water level all of the way up to the top of the overflow tube? It should typically be a half inch lower, but definitely not to the top.

    Your refill tube looks like it is held above the overflow and does not dangle into the overflow. If that is the way it is, that is good. A dangling refill tube could also show a problem.

    If you can tighten the tank bolts by hand or gently with a wrench, that is OK. However that is unlikely to be the cause of your symptom. Loose bolts cause tank wobble and leaks outside the toilet usually.

    These things will not fix a weak flush. See if holding down the handle during the flush helps give a stronger flush.
  3. noob666

    noob666 New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Ontario
    What should I be feeling for on the seat? I suppose you mean the black tube the flapper sits on. Yes my refill tube is held over the overflow tube by a white clip. Yeah my toilet fills up 1/4" below that blue line. I had just filled it up manually with a bottle to play around with it. And its an intermittent weak flush. Sometimes it needs a second flush, and that 2nd flush is always good.
  4. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,401
    Location:
    IL
    Feel for debris or roughness.

    Yes, the weak first flush can be explained by less water in the tank at the time of flush.

    Wait... you have a numbered dial on your flapper? The red is not a single molded piece? That is what I presumed from the picture. I don't know about the numbers. Somebody else is probably familiar with that. You might try to get a number from the flapper.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  5. noob666

    noob666 New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Ontario
    Its smooth, no roughness. I thought weak flush was caused by there being less water too at first, but I have filled up the tank and still get a weak flush? But would extra water being in the bowl cause an improper flush? When gently pull on flapper I can feel resistance so I assume this means there is a good seal there. I guessed by trial and error the numbering on the flapper determines how long flapper stays open. 1 being least and 9 being most. It was on 7 and now I have it on 8. Will play around with it for a few days. The occasional refilling I don't mind, but the double flushing I do mind.
  6. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,121
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Turn off the water to the tank and note the level.
    If the water in the tank lowers, you need to fix that.

    The first thing to look at is the flapper to flush valve connection. Does it hold water?

    Does the fill tube daylight over the overflow tube? It looks like yours is okay, as you have used the supplied clip.

    When a bowl is flushed, the bowl is refilled by that tube pointed into the overflow. You won't get a proper flush if the bowl level is low. It must start at the correct level for a good siphon to start.
    The Evolution was never a great flushing bowl.
  7. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,134
    Location:
    New England
    As a test, get a bucket or something that holds water, and after the flush and the toilet is just sitting there, note the water level in the bowl. Then, SLOWLY add water to the bowl. At some point, it won't go any higher, but it may take up to maybe 30-seconds to stabilize. That is how full the bowl must be for it to flush well the first time. Sounds like you have two problems...a leaking flapper valve and, the new refill valve doesn't have to right balance between the tank and the bowl for your toilet. That test will confirm or deny that guess. If the bowl isn't getting refilled, there are some refill valves that are adjustable (Korky makes one) that let you fine tune the balance between the tank and the bowl.

    The 'only flushes on the second try' is a classic symptom of not enough water in the bowl to start with.
  8. noob666

    noob666 New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Ontario
    I have tried the turning of the supply to the tank while at work, came home and there was water to about the level of the flapper. That is what made me try 3 different flappers and still the same issues. They have all been the kind that is pictured in my tank, some with a dial and some with out. I assume if the bolts holding the tank to the bowl weren't tight enough I would have water on the floor which I don't. I could try a different brand or style of flapper. All the internals of the toilet are a fluidmaster so thats what I stuck to. Could a flapper like this work better, looks like it has a silicone ring on the bottom to help with sealing around flushvalve. All the ones I have tried have been the brown redish colored ones.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,401
    Location:
    IL
    Did you replace the flapper seat as part of your re-build?
  10. noob666

    noob666 New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Ontario
    I used a fluidmaster complete toilet repair kit. I have read somewhere if I put petroleum jelly around the flapper and valve seat it would guarantee a good seal. Any thoughts?
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2013
  11. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,401
    Location:
    IL
    You replaced the seat. I think that is leaking.

    I have read to never put petroleum jelly on rubber. There are greases that are OK for such use, but petroleum jelly is not something to use for such things going forward. As a temporary lube, dish washing detergent is sometimes used. Silicone grease is one kind used for longer lasting seal use.

    I don't know how that rebuild attaches the seat, but I would re-do it.
  12. noob666

    noob666 New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Ontario
    You mean I should replace the flush valve again? Or is there something I can do without taking the tank off again?
  13. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,121
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    It would be pretty simple to remove the flapper and feel the edge of the flush valve to see if it's smooth.
  14. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,134
    Location:
    New England
    If you didn't get the nut holding the flush valve tight, it could leak, but not leak on the floor - it could just drain into the bowl.
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