Incorrect Rough-in for Toto Drake

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by 2Bobcats, Oct 26, 2006.

  1. 2Bobcats

    2Bobcats New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I am in mourning over my little powder room makeover that is becoming a major money pit, but will save you the boring details. Thankfully, had the good sense to purchase a Drake Toto (elongated model), but did not realize until the installer left that the john sits 3 1/2 inches from the wall @ top of tank and is approx. 3 inches from the bullnose tile (new, along with new floor) @ the base. I know from comparing spec sheets that the Drake is farther from the wall than a number of models, but not 3 1/2 inches! I have read the threads where others have had a similar (though smaller) problem. Just assume that original john (installed when house was built around 1986-87) must have had 14 in. rough-in. Installer promised he could move john back to a more acceptable distance without damage to the floor even though he caulked totally around base--claimed he did not notice distance from wall--and he is a licensed plumber!! Big problem is that he did not show up as promised and now will not return our phone calls. Don't know if it is worth $$ having another plumber come to take up the john and try to adjust or just to let it go and get on--have a Corian sinktop, faucet, light, etc., left to install plus drywall work and priming/painting. I am not keen on a shelf (difficult to match cabinetry) and thought perhaps I could get a basket/box with greater depth than the tank cover and put it against the wall. However, it appears the tank cover slopes to the front--does this mean the floor is not level? The room originally had hardwood down w/a marble plate under the john. We had never seen the plates until we moved to this area (Cincinnati) and were told that they had to be used between hardwood and john or a code violation. Now we are wondering if the plate was there for another reason. Advise from Toto and the plumbing supply place where we got the john is to try getting a 14 in. rough-in (not available in Drake), but I know from extensive research that most of them will cause problems w/water rough-in due to design and larger base. We thought the Toto Pacifica might work but have not read comments re this model, and it is certainly a costly solution. We really want to put Totos in all of our bathrooms eventually and assume they all require 14 in rough-in's. Our second brand choice (specifically, the Eljier Titian) does not come in 14 in. either. Any help, advise, etc., would be greatly appreciated.

    [​IMG]
    TOTO Pacifica CST808
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2009
  2. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,274
    Location:
    New England
    The way to assess the actual placement of the flange to determine the rough-in dimensions is to measure from the bolts that hold the toilet to the flange straight back to the finished wall.

    You usually can't move a toilet much more than maybe 1/4-1/2" from its optimum position, if that. Otherwise, either you won't be able to get the bolts through the toilet, or the seal will leak.

    Some of the Toto's use the same toilet, and use a mounting adapter to let it work at either 10, 12, or 14". These adapters are specific to the toilets designed for them, and can't be used generically on others. I've got a Vespin and a Carlyle in my house, and both of these (along with some othermodels) use the Unifit adapter, so can be used at 14". The Toto Aquia uses a different adapter, and not sure if it is available in various rough-ins. Some of the toilets are built for the non-standard 12" rough-in, but your choices are smaller and the price is often greater since there isn't as much demand.
  3. JIM LANNING

    JIM LANNING New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Do you know which toto has the adaptor rings or how I can Find out? I have a 14 ruff and would like to bring it back 2.....
  4. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,316
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    Most toilets are standard for a 12" roughin.
    That means that the drain in the floor needs to be at least 11.25" from the wall.

    If you have non-standard, then there is the Unifit option, which and adjust a 10" or 14" roughin.

    Any that work with the Unifit.
    Vespin CST764SG
    Carlyle MS874114SG
    Carrollton CST774SG
    and others.
    These come with a 12" unifit.
    The 14" Unifit replaces the 12" that the toilet comes with.

    [​IMG]
    Toto Vespin II CST474CEFG with SS114 Softclose seat.
    This bowl was installed on a 13-1/2" rough-in using the 14" Unifit adapter.
    The water shutoff can be as close as 5-1/2" to the left of center, unless it's higher off the floor, and then it can be even closer to center.
    This shutoff had been replaced with a new 1/4 turn valve with brass nipple through the wall.
    Installation was by James Love of Love Plumbing & Remodel 206-949-5683
    In some of the older Seattle homes, the old toilets had been wall mounted tank toilets.
    Those typically are 14" rough-in and need a flange repair to use standard closet bolt connections at the flange.
    Everything is on the truck for that.
    The Vespin comes with a standard 12" adapter or you can order a 10" or 14" adapter depending on your rough-in distance.
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2010
  5. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,274
    Location:
    New England
    Toto's unifit adapter is not a generic part, it only works with specific toilets, and the Drake is not one of them.
  6. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    27,062
    Location:
    Cave Creek, Arizona
    toilet

    It is not the plumber's job to tell you how much space is behind the toilet, if you furnished or specified the toilet. There is nothing he could do about it. He cannot easily move the pipe in the floor, and he cannot "slide" the toilet back. Either get a 14" toilet or a Toto with a Unifit adapter, if you cannot live with the space. Most people can, and in fact one customer insisted that I put the pipe 18" from the wall so he would have a 6" space behind it. The only way to adjust the opening is to open the floor and cut the pipe off, assuming there is nothing in the way to prevent it from moving backwards.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2008
  7. 2Bobcats

    2Bobcats New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Thanks for your input. Actually, the plumber, after looking @ space, recommended this model (the Drake) and we purchased it via him. There is no wiggle room to make an adjustment, so we have decided to leave it as is because we cannot use another Toto w/the adaptor due to space limitations w/water rough-in and skirt design on those particular models. He is here right now installing sink, etc. Lesson learned!!
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