How's my plumber doing?

[Augusta]

Went to check on this job hoping it was finished by the Plumbing Company this evening. Can you guess what happened? If you guessed they didn't finish, you guessed right. So, Thursday was supposed to be the completion day...then Friday, now Saturday is another day it won't be worked on, Sunday is another day it won't be worked on, now Monday - who knows? Maybe they'll finish then, maybe they won't. 3 hours? Scattered across 5 days? Master Plumber? How much would you want to bet that the Plumber will call me after the job is done and tell me he's going to charge me more hours than what he quoted me on Thursday? Meanwhile, there's a $33 per day rental loss while waiting on them to take their sweet time. The shower head (not shown in the photos) is still not centered (by at least an inch and a half), although the tub spout and the valve are. I plan to take a drill to it this weekend and center it myself. I'd hate to delay this project yet another day on centering the shower head, nor would I want to be seen as "high maintenance." In the second bath was a note from the plumber: "We will back no Monday" So tell me again, which is the picnic? Master Plumber or Handyman? I seem to forget.

 

[Augusta]

I couldn't resist adding the photo of the note the Master Plumber left for a bit of comedic relief. I wasn't sure, but it looks like blood on the corner of that note. None of you really know what it's like dealing with subs in Augusta.

To be continued...

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Basement_Lurker]

The threads dont matter but the galvanized strap on copper makes them awfully ignorant.

Actually, they do matter. A threaded joint is a future leak point that didn't need to be there, and is not the sign of a professional plumber in my opinion. My point was that he is paying good money, and is taking the time to give work to ticked professionals like he supposed to be doing, and all he is getting back for his trouble is handyman grade nonsense. The workmanship in that picture done by the "master plumber" is someting I would expect to see from an experienced apprentice and not a trade professional.

 

[Terry]

The threaded valve was already on the job. There's nothing wrong with threaded connections, it's just that it's easier to solder instead.
That's a Moen-Posi-Temp valve, they come with either threaded or CC solder connections, but not both. Some brands like Kohler give you both options on the same valve.

 

[SteveW]

What about the vent pipe going back and forth between 3" and 2"? Is that a code violation? I know that drain pipes are not allowed to go from a larger to a smaller diameter as you go downstream - what about vents?

 

[Terry]

Vents do tend to go larger as they go up as more fixtures are added.
In cold areas, they sometimes require a larger size through the roof so that they don't frost over.

If a vent is oversized, it's okay to reduce down to the code allowed size.

Waste is different. As it grades downhill, you can only increase the size. Otherwise you wind up with a dam.

 

[Augusta]

What about the vent pipe going back and forth between 3" and 2"? Is that a code violation? I know that drain pipes are not allowed to go from a larger to a smaller diameter as you go downstream - what about vents?

Here's what the master plumber said Thursday morning concerning the vent you see in the picture:

"um...I looked everything up on my code book and uh, we can reduce that line to 2 inch. 2 inch can carry 21 drainage fixture units..and uh..really all we are going to be doing is choking it down just a tiny bit for that backing...but uh.. what we got there with 2 bathroom groups, you've got 12 fixture units..and it can handle 21...we are well well well within the boundaries. And that will give us easier access to uh you know putting that backing in there..."

 

[Terry]

24 fixtures units on 2" in the UPC code book.

I've almost never run a 3" vent.
With most home, I can run two 2" vents and one 1.5" vent, totaled together this gets you your 3" for the entire home.
The kitchen gets a 1.5" and normally there is a vent or two or three more that picks up the last one.

Here is a two bathroom set run with a single 2" vent.

 

[Ballvalve]

Dont close the wall with the galvanized strap on the copper pipe. At least get the stooges to put their cigarette wrapper between the two. [ "not the aluminum part"] .

spout looks too low to pass code.

Leave a note and tell them to come back "no monday" and no ever

They think copper clad strap is for show?

The best plastic strapping is now free and laying around every open plywood pile

 

[Terry]

As long as the tub spout has the 1" air gap between the ledge or "flood level" of the tub and the outlet, it meets code.

 

[Augusta]

While I was typing my last post, my old Master Plumber called my cell phone out of the blue. I thought somehow he found out about this forum. (He's the one who did my new construction home years ago, with the trim touching on the shower jets). Told him about this site - hey bro! I'm not out to embarrass anyone, just here to get second opinions. Was surprised that he cared enough to ask about everything that had gone wrong in the past. I told him. Said he'd look up all my tickets and figure out just exactly what happened on all those calls. Told me he let go quite a few people. Assured me he'd do better so I'll put him back on the list and give him a try. Then he met me over at this house today. Quized him on some things. Forgot to ask him if he saw a problem with the galvanized strap on copper. If I ask 10 different plumbers about this same job, I'll get 10 different answers. Said he knows DEF Plumbing personally (the current plumber working in these bathrooms) and that he couldn't believe that they didn't knock it out on Thursday. Also told him about ABC plumbing doing a "no call no show." He said he knows that Master Plumber too, and was surprised to hear about that event as well. I assured him that most, if not all plumbers in Augusta, are all the same. They hire too many shoddy workers. Then they over commit. Then they send those guys out to my service calls.

Well, I knocked out the ceramic tile flooring in the kitchen today. Looks great. I'd hire me. Now it's time for me to put in the granite counter tops in the bathrooms, install the sinks, faucets, and hook everything up. After that I'll be painting the home, but I can't paint until I do the drywall, and I can't do the drywall until the bathroom showers are done. These plumbers are killing my time table.


By the way, I don't know how many Floor N' Decor outlet stores there are in the United States, but if you guys have one nearby, you really should check it out. I got the ceramic tile flooring for this kitchen for .49 per sq ft. I got the granite for $2.50 sq ft tiles, and $7.77 sq ft for whole granite counter tops. I've got to spend $30 in gas driving my truck to Atlanta, but that trip saved me $700 on this remodel. The entire floor cost to do this kitchen was $75 (DIY).

 

[Ballvalve]

Granite around here like that is @ 4 to 5$ a foot. Pretty close to formica cost.

And for the guy that doesn't like copper threads into a valve, nothing solders easier than copper threads into a brass valve. If you are so inclined.

 

[Augusta]

On to Crew #5 GHI Plumbing

DEF Plumbing called and left a message on my voicemail this morning:

"The guy I've got working on your job...he's not coming in today...so...finish up tomorrow..unless you gotta gotta gotta have it today..I can probably send my son over there...but I'd rather finish up tomorrow but my guy's off..he's got things figured out and how we're going to work things..so call me back if there's a problem...otherwise we'll be over there Tuesday morning. Thanks."

Called the office. Got the office girl. Kindly asked her to bill me for the work they did and don't come back. That's just not how I do business. Explained that they were supposed to complete this Thursday last week. I can see something coming up and having to finish the next day (although I never got a reason why)...but now 6 days (maybe) for a 3 hour job? Just bill me. And don't come back out. "No Monday" and "no ever", like Ballvalve said.

Called my old plumber (who fired a lot of his guys...the same guys messing up on my service calls). Asked him if he could complete this for sure Tuesday morning. Said it's not a problem. Will be there at 8:30am and finish it tomorrow morning.

Now, which is the picnic again? Handyman or Master Plumber?

 

[Terry]

Here is a three handle valve being replaced by a pressure balanced single handle
You can see that this Kohler valve has threads, but it was soldered in placing as the second option.

 

[Augusta]

Done?

Quick summary, because this has gone on seemingly forever:

Crew #1 Handyman. Failed. Complete disaster.
Crew #2 State Employee Plumber. Failed. Hugely crooked alignment + leaks.
Crew #3 Well known Master Plumber and supposedly one of the best in town. Failed. No call no show.
Crew #4 Well known Plumber and 4th generation Master plumber. Failed. 6 days for 3 hours of work with no end in sight. They moved the vent pipe for the master bath, installed the valve wall insert, and left. Haven't gotten a bill from them yet.
Crew #5 Well known Master Plumber (my old plumber). Had to align shower head in master bath (wall is open), realign valve, spout, and shower head in hallway bath with access from the master bath. Crew #4 quoted 3 hours to complete the whole thing and maybe completed an hour to an hour and a half worth of work. So, crew #5 finishes what Crew #4 didn't with an invoice of 2 men and 3 hours of work. It doesn't add up for me, but ok. With the remainder of work I just listed for Crew #5, do you see 2 men and 3 hours worth of work? Any issues with what you see in the pictures as my final job completion?

Invoice:
FINISHED PLUMBING ON TUB VALVES, STRAIGHTENED SHOWER HEADS IN MASTER BATH; REPAIRED LEAK ON TUB DRAIN IN HALL BATH -- 3 HOURS LABOR, 2 MEN, MISC COPPER & PVC WASTE FITTINGS === $240.00








Pictures continued on next post...

 

[Augusta]

Done?

...(Please see previous post on previous page...I could not attach all of the pictures in the same post).

Quick summary, because this has gone on seemingly forever:

Crew #1 Handyman. Failed. Complete disaster.
Crew #2 State Employee Plumber. Failed. Hugely crooked alignment + leaks.
Crew #3 Well known Master Plumber and supposedly one of the best in town. Failed. No call no show.
Crew #4 Well known Plumber and 4th generation Master plumber. Failed. 6 days for 3 hours of work with no end in sight. They moved the vent pipe for the master bath, installed the valve wall insert, and left. Haven't gotten a bill from them yet.
Crew #5 Well known Master Plumber (my old plumber). Had to align shower head in master bath (wall is open), realign valve, spout, and shower head in hallway bath with access from the master bath. Crew #4 quoted 3 hours to complete the whole thing and maybe completed an hour to an hour and a half worth of work. So, crew #5 finishes what Crew #4 didn't with an invoice of 2 men and 3 hours of work. It doesn't add up for me, but ok. With the remainder of work I just listed for Crew #5, do you see 2 men and 3 hours worth of work? Any issues with what you see in the pictures as my final job completion?

Invoice:
FINISHED PLUMBING ON TUB VALVES, STRAIGHTENED SHOWER HEADS IN MASTER BATH; REPAIRED LEAK ON TUB DRAIN IN HALL BATH -- 3 HOURS LABOR, 2 MEN, MISC COPPER & PVC WASTE FITTINGS === $240.00



This is the hallway bath where the trim used to touch.


Wasn't thrilled about them cutting such a large hole in the front.


...(Please see previous post on previous page...I could not attach all of the pictures in the same post).

 

[Cookie]

You will have to celebrate when it is all done! Get a bottle of wine and hit it off the tub.

 

[Dlarrivee]

So this is your house?

Or you're the "general contractor" for someone else's home reno?

 

[Nukeman]

^ It is one of his rental properties.

I'm not a plumber, but this is what I see:

- Sharkbite fittings. They work okay, but most pros would sweat those joints. I've used them before for a temp fix, but I don't know if I would trust them long term behind a wall. Your call, though.

- What is with the wood block above the valve? It doesn't look like it is doing anything.

- It may be the pics, but the spout/valve looks to be shifted compare to the center of the tub. No big deal if it doesn't bother you.

 

[Terry]

The wood block above the valve holds it in place relative to the surround.